Lets face it most competition guns are over priced. Perazzi MX2000S at least £7k, Krieghoff Parcour £12k, Beretta SO6 EELL £80k!! And they all do exactly the same thing!!! Would I own a kreighoff? Yes I would. Would I pay for a Krieghoff (full asking price)? No, I would not? Are they all well made? Yes I think they are, especially these days, its too easy to kill your reputation now we all use the interweb to check gun reviews, look what happen to Blaser...
A visit to Krieghoff
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ips
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I believe there is more to expensive guns than it would first appear. Yes they do the same thing and look similar but there is a more refined feel and handling to more expensive guns than there more affordable cousins. Time to taken to refine the balance is the main difference i would say but arguably better trigger pulls also. The wood to metal fit is generally better and the stocks i find are better finished and sometimes small things like the radius of the pistol grip. I have had lots of beretta including 4 different DT10 and i can tell wet quite categorically that the eell may be twice the price of std DT but it handles totally different, there is little comparison apart from the first bit of the name. Yes you are paying a premium for the side plate but that is not the price difference its probably 3k for the plate and 3k for the aforementioned refined balance etc. It may not be worth the extra to some but aspirational guns are apart from the above partly down to joy of ownership. I consider guns to be functional works of art and i want the best i can afford after all it ain't doing nothing in the bank.
Won't or can't argue you on those points Ian, BUT...
You can't tell me there is a difference between a £3,500 gun and £12,000 gun, in terms of balance, feel, finish and workmanship? A stock can be headed up to fit the action by laser cutter and you wouldn't see any gaps in the join for instance. Having shot all the guns I mentioned, if I had been blind folded I could not honestly tell them apart, except the Krieghoff, it felt heavy and would be a dead give away.
So you are paying a hefty premium for a gun even if it aspirational, at the end of the day is does the same has a £1,200 Mirook IMO
You can't tell me there is a difference between a £3,500 gun and £12,000 gun, in terms of balance, feel, finish and workmanship? A stock can be headed up to fit the action by laser cutter and you wouldn't see any gaps in the join for instance. Having shot all the guns I mentioned, if I had been blind folded I could not honestly tell them apart, except the Krieghoff, it felt heavy and would be a dead give away.
So you are paying a hefty premium for a gun even if it aspirational, at the end of the day is does the same has a £1,200 Mirook IMO
Matt, I wouldn't class the Krieghoff Parcour or SO6 EELL as compitition clay guns, but I agree with the rest of your post.
ips
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Matt
that is exactly what i am saying. I know for a fact that my eell shoots totally different to my std Dt and it is down to the balance mainly. The stock is also different in quality of finish and geometry. Now i am not trying to justify the purchase in any way as if i didnt think it was a far superior gun i would off load it the same as i have many others.
I accept they all do the same thing but some more expensive models do it better, of course we have to do a direct comparison which i am able to do as i have both.
You may be correct regarding wood to metal fit as your probably right that even high end stuff may be machined the same way as less expensive models so on that one i will accept you may be correct.
Triggers are also a big thing, you cannot compare quality of trigger pulls of a Dt or a Mx with that of a baikal.
I don't want to sound argumentative but if you truly believed all guns were the same regardless of cost you would be shooting a baikal.
No offence to baikal i expect they are good at what they do.
Regards - Ian
Ian I shoot a MK38, one of the most agricultural triggers you can find. Yes I accept triggers, action, finish is different but I don't accept the price difference, it only exists to keep their price high and for people who can afford it, but functionally they do the same thing. Yes you can say the same about cars but a ford focus has had a lot less R & D investment than say a Pagani Zonda
Kreighoff's are a bi annual service, and yes it annoying they have to go back to Alan Rhone for a service.
At the end of they day we all spend our money and make our choice, hence the amount of brands that are out there.
Using the car example again people buy Tata and dawoo, do they chose them or is that what they can afford.
I brought my kreighoff purely on the looks after shooting a kemen for 7 years, was it a mistake ...yes ....I have had to learn to shoot again, do I regret it no....do I care if people think I am a fashion victim following the crowd just wanting to fit in.
Yes, it's hurt my feelings and I am going to tell my mum :-(
At the end of they day we all spend our money and make our choice, hence the amount of brands that are out there.
Using the car example again people buy Tata and dawoo, do they chose them or is that what they can afford.
I brought my kreighoff purely on the looks after shooting a kemen for 7 years, was it a mistake ...yes ....I have had to learn to shoot again, do I regret it no....do I care if people think I am a fashion victim following the crowd just wanting to fit in.
Yes, it's hurt my feelings and I am going to tell my mum :-(
If many have issues about prices of new high end shotgun manufacturers , just buy a used one there's always a muppet that buys a new one then trades it in within a few months , then get the stock altered if need be. Sorted job done £££££ saved 
ips
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i have been that muppet many many timesIf many have issues about prices of new high end shotgun manufacturers , just buy a used one there's always a muppet that buys a new one then trades it in within a few months , then get the stock altered if need be. Sorted job done £££££ saved
S.Deaville
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Nothing wrong with a Audi, BMW, Merc etc etc etc but some people will always prefer one to another.
Same with anything. I was looking at guns and went for the new Blaser Supersport not for any other reason than
i like it and feels good for me. I did look down the Krieghoff route, very nice. But it all personal choice.
Same with anything. I was looking at guns and went for the new Blaser Supersport not for any other reason than
i like it and feels good for me. I did look down the Krieghoff route, very nice. But it all personal choice.
EdSolomons
Well-known member
Oh how we laughed... Peter you little scamp...
I can taste the bitterness from here
As emmsy said, a shame you didn't take the time to learn how to use your Krieghoff (how many did you have, 3 yes?)- cant have been that bad a gun or you wouldn't have gone back!
On the cost front, coming from a manufacturing background and having been round the factory twice now, I still maintain that I'm surprised they can make a gun for 10k when you see the small number of guns they make, and the amount of hand finishing that each one undergoes. It has to be paid for somewhere.
Comparing them in any way to a Miroku, which we all know you love and shoot soooooo well ;-) is frankly laughable. Also I'd love to know where all these K80s with firing pin problems are hiding, I've never seen one and I see A LOT of them, every week.
Personally I fully understand why they can only be serviced by Alan- it protects the brand from letting any old bloke with a screwdriver have a go at it, do a bad job and damage the reputation. The service you get from Alan (by far the best in the shooting industry) is also a selling point and has to be covered somewhere.
Going around the factory and seeing how much time and effort goes into each gun was a fantastic trip, and would recommend it to anyone with an interest in seeing how a top end company operates.
For those that take the time to learn how to use them, there is no other gun that you will ever want to shoot. I'd take my K80 over 1000 MK38s, MX8s or SO series guns.
Good job were all different ey
I can taste the bitterness from here
As emmsy said, a shame you didn't take the time to learn how to use your Krieghoff (how many did you have, 3 yes?)- cant have been that bad a gun or you wouldn't have gone back!
On the cost front, coming from a manufacturing background and having been round the factory twice now, I still maintain that I'm surprised they can make a gun for 10k when you see the small number of guns they make, and the amount of hand finishing that each one undergoes. It has to be paid for somewhere.
Comparing them in any way to a Miroku, which we all know you love and shoot soooooo well ;-) is frankly laughable. Also I'd love to know where all these K80s with firing pin problems are hiding, I've never seen one and I see A LOT of them, every week.
Personally I fully understand why they can only be serviced by Alan- it protects the brand from letting any old bloke with a screwdriver have a go at it, do a bad job and damage the reputation. The service you get from Alan (by far the best in the shooting industry) is also a selling point and has to be covered somewhere.
Going around the factory and seeing how much time and effort goes into each gun was a fantastic trip, and would recommend it to anyone with an interest in seeing how a top end company operates.
For those that take the time to learn how to use them, there is no other gun that you will ever want to shoot. I'd take my K80 over 1000 MK38s, MX8s or SO series guns.
Good job were all different ey
P
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Kreig's ....Too heavy for me....I sold mine....! Darling liked his and shot it well....but eventually found Perazzi and Kemen.
Perazzi forever now.....just saying.
They also do the factory bit.
(Hope you were working on your own gun with the screwdriver :wink: )
Perazzi forever now.....just saying.
They also do the factory bit.
(Hope you were working on your own gun with the screwdriver :wink: )
EdSolomons
Well-known member
Was working on the stock nic! Ralf got me to file some of the wood down where I couldn't do too much damage!
The new parcours would be more up your street, nice and light ;-)
The new parcours would be more up your street, nice and light ;-)
EdSolomons
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Just got back from supermarket with some vinegar for that huge chip that seems to be firmly planted on peters shoulder!
Come on Pete I'm on holiday for 5 days from tomorrow I need to get you wrapped up and verbally beaten before I pack the bags, hurry up!
Come on Pete I'm on holiday for 5 days from tomorrow I need to get you wrapped up and verbally beaten before I pack the bags, hurry up!
P
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Does it come in pink ? :wink:
