Am I too tightly choked

[jwpzx9r]

Reading the articles by that Derek Partridge fellow and am Finding them quite illuminating in a very glitzy retro way! To be honest when these articles were written is when I should have got into shooting but I could not afford it!  Any ways  I was reading one about him getting a new Perazzi made for him at the factory and from that was reading that he believes that most people have their guns choked too tight. He was describing what he looks for when he breaks a clay. He described a first barrel hit as being like a star burst rather than a complete dusting saying a dusting indicates too tight a choke. He had his gun made according to what Perazzi believed to be best 7/10 and 10/10, but subsequently had them opened to 5/10 and 8/10. The common choking in France is 70 and 100 for fixed chokes. I have my XTR at IMP Mod and Full and have noticed that when I hit first barrel, which is nearly 90% of my total hits, I nearly always completely dust the clay. I was questioning whether I should open out to 5/10 for the first barrel in the vague hope that I might actually improve my score by catching targets that I might just not catch with the tighter choke? Or should I just not go there and be happy dusting them and search for an improvement by better setup, discipline and accuracy?

Think his articles are great though, its like look I am not only a star but an international trap shooter come James Bond character adding glamour to your late sixties early seventies shooting magazine. Having said that I suppose clay shooting was a bit glam back then certainly pricey I seem to remember?

 

[ips]

Personally i go fixed three quarter full every time but there is no harm trying more open as a lot depends on gun and cartridge combination and to a degree how quick you shoot em.

 

[40UP]

Hi JWP, you're trying again to apply intellect to a co-ordination sport. You can apply the psychology, eat the Andy Murray diet, buy the carbon fibre tennis racket but first you have to hit the ball. The trapshooting you have chosen is a primal instinct. You have stance, focus, call and traverse to the target. Then do it again. It is subconscious muscle memory without deliberation. All the problem solving you have applied during your professional career will only get you the last 5%. Even on this forum you will see there have been others who have tried to apply mental rigour to what is a physical action. Don't ask mr Murray or a footballer what he thinks of politics. The difficulty when I first started trap was not knowing the answers but not even knowing the questions. And yes half choke is better until you are only missing one percent. My best regards, David Thornley

 

[ips]

Excellent post Mr T

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hi David

Thanks for the advice and believe me I do recognise what you are saying! Its very easy to take a problem solving scientific approach to something that is instinct based. I have sought out another club at which I can shoot on a Saturday when I would not normally be able to shoot, there is another that shoots on  Wednesday and Sunday so I am going to get more practice which, I hope, is going to help a lot. I know you will appreciate that some people, and I am one, when they take something up crave the knowledge to be able to better and what you say is correct no amount of knowledge of the sport will necessarily make you a better shooter but it might just give you a few ideas how to pursue your goal ! I would like to be able to get some coaching but language is a real problem and although I have met some very willing helpers if you cannot converse fully its always less than ideal. Liked the Andy Murray analogy the lad done us all proud  

 

[Les53]

Excellent post Mr T

Ditto

 

[40UP]

History lesson. You may ask what did Derek Partridge ever do for us. He broke the international clay shooting disciplines away from the CPSA and formed the British International Clay Target Shooting Federation (BICTSF). The dispute which triggered this was the pre-selection of the Olympic team two years in advance. The clash between medals and participation continues to this day.

 

[40UP]

Hi David

Thanks for the advice and believe me I do recognise what you are saying! Its very easy to take a problem solving scientific approach to something that is instinct based. I have sought out another club at which I can shoot on a Saturday when I would not normally be able to shoot, there is another that shoots on  Wednesday and Sunday so I am going to get more practice which, I hope, is going to help a lot. I know you will appreciate that some people, and I am one, when they take something up crave the knowledge to be able to better and what you say is correct no amount of knowledge of the sport will necessarily make you a better shooter but it might just give you a few ideas how to pursue your goal ! I would like to be able to get some coaching but language is a real problem and although I have met some very willing helpers if you cannot converse fully its always less than ideal. Liked the Andy Murray analogy the lad done us all proud  

I think you will find that language for a shooting coach will not matter, again the answers are not written down. I was most impressed that the female coach of the Russian ladies team just carries a long stick. Maybe you could make enquiries.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hi David

I may be misinterpreting your post but I get the impression you do not have a high regard for this guy Derek Partridge as he was divisive influence in British shooting? I thought his articles were interesting if perhaps a bit, look at me I'm great an actor and what's more I shoot at an international level.

As to the Russian coach hmm. don't know if I want battered with a stick if I miss.

 

[40UP]

Hi David

I may be misinterpreting your post but I get the impression you do not have a high regard for this guy Derek Partridge as he was divisive influence in British shooting? I thought his articles were interesting if perhaps a bit, look at me I'm great an actor and what's more I shoot at an international level.

As to the Russian coach hmm. don't know if I want battered with a stick if I miss.

No, no he wasn't devisive. Derek is a hero and his achievements were lasting. I exchanged Christmas greetings with him year before last to enquire what he thought of the current administration and direction. As Wonko confirmed he has to travel a distance even now in California to find some wobble trap. He was years ahead of his time. I think it was Jill StJohn that he married, can't fault his judgement.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hi David

Very interesting I totally did misinterpret you there, sorry for that!

As a side issue you have a good idea of the order of importance for a new trap shooter such as myself. I currently use a brand of cartridge that I buy at the local Decathlon  store they are very reasonable for cost €160 per thousand lots of people not unsurprisingly use them. I have been hitting scores of 18 through to a high of 21 this season which will be my first full season. I got to thinking, see there I go again thinking, that I might start using a more expensive brand which I thought may help my scores. Now going on what I have read in your post I am of the opinion that I should stick with the cheaper cartridge and shoot more as the difference in price per 100 carts pays for two rounds of ABT clays. What do you think?

 

[Andy S]

Hi JWP,

My XTR is a fixed choke one, the bottom barrel is marked *- with the word plus written underneath, with normally is 3/4 choke but I suspect with the word plus underneath then it is 7/8  and the top is marked as full. Whenever I have missed I have never thought, oh if only I had 1/4 choke installed I would have hit that one. The reason I miss is normally because I'm behind the clay when I pull the trigger, generally because I have been looking in the wrong place and the clay has got the jump on me and I'm playing catch-up.

However as you have multi chokes then there is no harm in trying say 1/2 and 3/4 combo, shoot a few rounds and see how you get on, if you improve great if not stick the tightest ones back in and enjoy the dust ball breaks.

Stick with the cheaper cartridge, so long as it is smooth to shoot and use the extra money to get more time on the layouts to improve your shooting.

 

[40UP]

The temptation to improve the odds is irresistible. Lets look at other sports. Should a first year golfer buy a better golf ball? Should the beginner at snooker buy a better cue. Would tungsten darts throw easier. Before Andy Murray got his 17 support staff what did he do for the first 15 years? We have to assume he learned to play tennis. From coaches who kept him on the straight and narrow. Find what works best for you on that course and study the styles used by other shooters. Many of the best that I've talked to simply copied the style of another shooter who looked good. Over here I've often said you can learn more by watching Ian Peel shoot a round of targets than you ever could by shooting them yourself.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hi Andy

You are correct of course when I miss its because I shot the wrong bit of sky I think I am just going to stick with what I am doing using the same setup but pay much more attention to my stance and to keep my head down on the stock. I have found another very nice shooting ground not too far away about 60 miles round trip the people were very friendly and although for some bizarre reason I did not take my kit with me they insisted on me shooting five stands of UT using a members gun. Thank god I managed to hit four of the five, they shoot practice every Saturday and have two UT and a OT stand. There is another bigger ground that do a mid week and a Sunday practice so I will be getting a lot more shooting What I thought was weird was they shoot out over a ravine and there was one target that left the fosse almost straight and about a metre high ten metres out. You really get a sense of just how quickly the target is falling away on that trajectory if you did not get it early on the first barrel you were shooting down hill !

The cheap cartridge shoots fine its just ..well cheap loads of people shoot them but in a sport where perception of a product is linked to its price the serious shooters use something a little bit more pricey.

 

[Dog Tyred]

I seem to recall a former new forum member (who shall remain nameless) who always over analysed and tried to apply science to his shooting. Bored the pants off me and thankfully took umbridge when a few critisied one of his posts and has never been heard of since   :thumbsu:

Just workout what works for you and stick with it until you don't improve any more, then look for the missing bit of the jigsaw to start improving again.

Take note, the above comment is from someone who bought a Perazzi thinking it would improve his scores. After six months practice with it my scores are now improving although I suspect that is more down to six months more shooting rather than a new gun. I'm sure if I had stuck with my Mirook my scores would be the same!...........if not higher !! :wacko:

There is no magic bullet, just hard work, good technique and practice.

An enlightened DT

 

[ips]

Absolutely correct DT take it from one of many that no there is no holy grail. The only thing IMO that will will improve anyone's score is practice and good target acquisition in other words concentrate only on seeing the target and a simple pre shot routine and mount. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that a particular gun or cartridge will magically put points on your score. Of course natural talent helps but remember this all the top shooters put huge amounts of lead through the barrel to attain and sustain success.

 

[Andy S]

JWP,

Glad you have found more grounds to shoot at. Practise practise and more practise, then enter a few competitions, if you can find any local and see the difference that a bit of mental pressure, does to your scores.

 

[ips]

then enter a few competitions, if you can find any local and see the difference that a bit of mental pressure, does to your scores.

good point. From my experience pressure can either make you focus even more or crucifiy your score.

Funny game innit

 

[Les53]

Absolutely correct DT take it from one of many that no there is no holy grail. The only thing IMO that will will improve anyone's score is practice and good target acquisition in other words concentrate only on seeing the target and a simple pre shot routine and mount. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that a particular gun or cartridge will magically put points on your score. Of course natural talent helps but remember this all the top shooters put huge amounts of lead through the barrel to attain and sustain success.

As Dennis Stepney said to me not so long ago....."if there was a gun and cartridge combination that could turn anyone into a world champion it would be sitting in my gun room right now, but it's not there". He was right of course, however a great many of us have been on the grail trail.....and paid the price!