Beretta recoil inertia

[eaststandbaggie]

From a previous thread , I think we now all know that on a Beretta you need a little bit of extra recoil inertia to set the 2nd barrel. Being a relative newby could anyone tell me :-

a) Could a Danuser shock absorber have any effect on reducing the inertia and hence not setting the 2nd barrel

B) What would be a good cartridge to ensure that its recoil always set the 2nd barrel

 

[Will Hewland]

I would advise that you dont let the tail wag the dog here.. If you had a car with crap tyres, you wouldnt stay at home when it rained; you would sort the tyres out.

My Beretta (SxS) wouldnt cock the second barrel with 21g or 24g shells. It occasionally failed to do it with 28g shells too. I got a gunsmith to sort the bloody thing out. Cost a few quid but now it does everything I want.

If I had a new Beretta, I would throw it back at them as being simply defective. With a used one, ring around the gunsmiths.

Then you can fit recoil devices and use soft shells if needed.

CSC3

 

[Westward]

2 or 3 years ago I was economising and bought a 1,000 of the awful Comp-Xs. The dealer only had 750 in 28gm so I took the rest in 21. After 25 targets and 3 fails to reset I swapped the rest of the 21s with another shooter. My then gun was an unaltered 686E, I haven't tried any 21gm in the SV10.

When I mentioned it to the dealer his comment was simply that some Berettas don't reset reliably with Hull 21s.

My physics is a bit rusty but I would say that a recoil reducer would probably help rather than hinder the resetting because there would be more rearward movement of the stock. Personally though, if I needed to soften recoil I'd shoot a gas semi like a 391and use full strength shells.

 

[Mike]

Recoil is needed for the trigger to fire the second shot, a reducer will decrease recoil.

 

[eaststandbaggie]

Thanks for the comments, gun is still under GMK warranty so I think I will take Mr Clevers advice and throw it back at them to get sorted.

Cheers Chris

 

[ExSCA]

Definitely the right answer, I had mine fixed recently when a 'sticky' inertia block stopped it cocking for the second shot. All fixed in 30 mins by a reputable gun smith.

 

[Westward]

Recoil is needed for the trigger to fire the second shot, a reducer will decrease recoil.

The term "recoil reducer" is a misnomer. The only things that reduce recoil are softer shells and/or heavier guns. What these devices do is lengthen the recoil pulse so that it's more of a shove than a punch. The inertia mechanism relies on movement of the gun to operate which is why I think it would be more reliable with a device than without.

Thanks for the comments, gun is still under GMK warranty so I think I will take Mr Clevers advice and throw it back at them to get sorted.

Cheers Chris

Chris, It wasn't clear to me from your opening post that you're already having a problem. I believe that lighter inertia block springs are available from Beretta but I would definitely ring first. I've always found GMK to be very helpful.

 

[eaststandbaggie]

Thanks again for the comments. Will dig out the warranty when I finally get home tonight and give GMK a ring in the morning.

Cheers again, Chris

 

[Mike]

Westward,

You are giving an incorrect answer. Recoil is needed to enable the second barrel to fire. If you decrease or slow down the recoil the inertia block will not move far enough to fire the second barrel.

 

[Will Hewland]

Newtons cradle. The struck ball does not move, but the 'attached' ball rockets off and would be able to cock a trigger!

 

[Westward]

Mike & Clever,

I know exactly how the mechanism works but let's not morph the thread into a discussion about physics.

Chris,

I hope GMK can help. For American skeet which is shot in all 4 standard gauges, many people use one gun with different barrel inserts right down to .410 - and trigger mods for the low power shells are commonplace.

I'll be interested to hear what GMK have to say about this.

 

[40UP]

I thought the inertia block would have to get bigger but you lop a turn and a half off the return spring for a Perazzi in the absence of any help from RUAG

 

[Mike]

Westward,

It's been a common thing on Beretta's for over 30 years, that's why a mechanical trigger is a better system.

Miroku's will function with 21gm loads.

 

[Westward]

Westward,

It's been a common thing on Beretta's for over 30 years, that's why a mechanical trigger is a better system.

Miroku's will function with 21gm loads.

The inertia block on a 68X Beretta is quite small and light and although it needs less energy to acelerate, it has less inertia to keep it moving. Miroku blocks are heavier and thus have more inertia. As for it being a common thing for over 30 years... I'm surprised to say the least. Apart from the newish 21gm shells I've not come across it or heard of it before. I've browsed Shotgunworld for Beretta info many times and no-one there has ever mentioned it either.

Inertia triggers exist for a reason and that's because with mechanical triggers there are some safety concerns including the potential for doubling/fan firing which is why the B725 has both mechanical triggers and an inertia mechanism.

 

[Mike]

The inertia block on a 68X Beretta is quite small and light and although it needs less energy to acelerate, it has less inertia to keep it moving. Miroku blocks are heavier and thus have more inertia. As for it being a common thing for over 30 years... I'm surprised to say the least. Apart from the newish 21gm shells I've not come across it or heard of it before. I've browsed Shotgunworld for Beretta info many times and no-one there has ever mentioned it either.

Inertia triggers exist for a reason and that's because with mechanical triggers there are some safety concerns including the potential for doubling/fan firing which is why the B725 has both mechanical triggers and an inertia mechanism.

What are you trying to prove?

I started shooting Beretta's with a 682 Gold, back in those day's the lightest recoiling cartridges I ever shot were S&B 7/8ths of an ounce. The 682 would not fire the 2nd barrel using them.

The Beretta's in those days were shot with 32gms and they always worked. You need recoil for the gun to function.

Try this...fire one barrel of your Beretta..then tap the butt on the floor to reset the trigger ...pull trigger again, it will fire second barrel

Repeat test but place a cushion on the floor before tapping butt for second shot....it will not release trigger. Please do not try to teach me how to suck eggs.

 

[Will Hewland]

Mike & Clever,

I know exactly how the mechanism works but let's not morph the thread into a discussion about physics.

As my Dad used to say: 'don't interject the facts when arguing with me' )

Clearly the gun needs to move rearward (when recoiling) to allow the inertia of the block to take effect. The block needs to 'stay still' while the gun moves. That is what inertia is.

The point is, however, that if the gun recoils too slowly ( I.e. the movement is dampened, by a recoil reducer-or pillow..) then the inertia block may well travel backwards with the gun and not move within the mechanism sufficiently to operate. If this were not true, then the gun would be trying to cock a trigger while being carried around the ground over the shoulder..

I'm outa here..

CSC3

 

[Westward]

I started shooting Beretta's with a 682 Gold, back in those day's the lightest recoiling cartridges I ever shot were S&B 7/8ths of an ounce. The 682 would not fire the 2nd barrel using them.

Whatever.

I'm going for a relaxing beverage.

 

[scotty38]

Recoil is needed for the trigger to fire the second shot, a reducer will decrease recoil.

Surely a recoil pad will just reduce felt recoil rather than actual recoil. The gun moves the same (due to physics) but the recoil reducer absorbs the shock rather than your shoulder.

I'm new so I probably don't have a clue anyway :smile:

 

[Will Hewland]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, so yes. The gun will move rearwards whatever, but there are options as to how fast and also as to how much recoil reaches the shoulder and at what speed. With a solid butt pad, the human shoulder will move backwards. With a recoil reducer, the gun will move, but compress the device, rather than the shoulder. That is a simplification, but roughly true I reckon..