Big Teal

[Hamster]

I don't think consistency has ever been mentioned... The question was can it be done past 100 yards. Yes it can, comfortably. Consistently past 100-110 then no, but doable

John,

Ed covers it succinctly above. You can get over the distance problems with pattern density and pellet energy etc, by choke, increased loads and larger shot but there comes a time when skill has almost nothing to do with it, consistently breaking it at 130+ yards is simply not doable and the only explanation is inadequate density and kinetic energy of individual pellets. 

Otherwise we 'd have had a YouTube video of someone, somewhere breaking 7 or 8 X 10 more than once. 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Tell that to George.....!

(People are obviously forgetting SA as well)

Ho hum......!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Now let's see how many people on this thread said......'well done Chris and Richard' just so that I can see what types of sportsmen we have on here...??? Or 'How fantastic Adam...having a 155 yd hit at your ground'.

I swear to God I bet I will be disappointed at the milk of human kindness displayed to others who actually 'are' good shots. :laugh:

 

[Hamster]

Well let me be the first to say I don't feel it's worthy of meaningful congrats. We had a long teal comp over here a few years ago and it was won by a complete unknown, good luck to him though as he did pick up well over £200 

I'll call it skill when anyone hits 8 X 10 and praise them accordingly, until then it's nothing more than spray and pray.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Oh dear me.

The etiquette of shooting and sporting behaviour is lost with some people.

Everyone who pulls the trigger or uses a baseball bat.....is lucky.....true story...!

 

[Hamster]

I once hit a pigeon at 110 yards with Cylinder choke, completely true story as I was inexperienced and eager. The least you can do is praise my superior luck and judgement.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hammy

Not doubting there must be a huge element of good luck, but that vid of GD does demonstrate that targets can be broken one after another out to well beyond 100 yds. Or to put it this way on that particular vid GD hit from 90 yds  six shots on the trot, in my book there is luck involved but his skill shortens the odds considerably in his favour. Add to that he only stopped because there was no more room he is starting to look like some sort of shooting god! In summary shooting if we believe the rational being used every single target hit at shooting is luck! I think you alluded to that earlier. At close range the odds are stacked in the shooters favour as the distance increases the odds lengthen and then become shorter on a miss. Now some people have the ability to reduce the odds to their favour by their skill and I think good old GD has that ability in spades and can shorten his odds to great effect over greater distances than most.

That is my explanation of this phenomenon called GD.

 

[Hamster]

I realised GD was the greatest shooter ever a long time ago, way before UChoob was even created. The man can place an inordinately small pattern on close targets every single time and place a larger though still dense enough pattern on targets ordinary shooters consider unshootable. Even he though cannot stop pellets loosing energy and opening out to the degree that we know happens at 130+ yards. 

This is easy to see if you care to fire 36 gram of 5's at the side of a barn covered with paper (I know it's long winded but it's the only way you'll SEE the pattern) at say 135 yards. After a few trial shot to know how high you have to hold for best results, you will be left with what can only be described as sporadic random holes here and there. You will be extremely unlikely to find a spot where two shots would have connected with a clay size target. It's a single strike game in other words which is why I say it's more luck than judgement.

 

[maddmatt]

OK you made me do this so don't blame me when it all goes to poo

There is a fundamental flaw with shooting pattern plates or bits of paper to determine what is happening with the shot. The flaw is this, when a clay is shot at and the shot ball hits the clay the interaction of clay and lead shot occurs in 3D space (stay with me), BUT when you shoot a pattern plate or piece of paper the interaction becomes 2D. Why does it do this? Simple, the shot, when it hits a pattern plate, stops its original forward motion and loses all of its kinetic & potential energy almost immediately. When you shoot a clay, the shot that hits the clay continues its forward motion , albeit not necessarily on the original path, and only loses some of its kinetic and potential energy.

So what I hear you moan, well this interaction effects how the lead shot at the back of the ball reacts to the front of the ball hitting something, like a clay. When the ball hits a pattern plate the pressure the front of the ball creates as it hits the plate causes the following shot to form the pattern.

 

[Hamster]

Even if we accept that at that range, nay any range, shot string has a part to play you have to remember what you see on a paper pattern is the BEST case scenario. That means it shows you ALL the pellets regardless of whether some were at the back and beyond the clay, otherwise the potential pattern would be even more sparse.

I only mentioned paper plates because some people aren't happy with a ton of misses on real clays.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Absolutely Matt it is a 3D event not only for the shot but also the target. For example a piece of shot hitting the clay can change its flight path and its original attitude to the plane of the shot string. Again for example a edge on target could the be hit by a piece of shot face side on after the original edge on hit. At 150 meters the "shot string" takes on a much greater importance than at 40 meters the diameter is far greater and the length is longer too making the chance non simultaneous impacts far greater, only in my opinion. Oooppps said shot string again

 

[jwpzx9r]

Even if we accept that at that range, nay any range, shot string has a part to play you have to remember what you see on a paper pattern is the BEST case scenario. That means it shows you ALL the pellets regardless of whether some were at the back and beyond the clay, otherwise the potential pattern would be even more sparse.

I only mentioned paper plates because some people aren't happy with a ton of misses on real clays.

Yes Hammy BUT it does not tell you where they are in a 3D sense. One hole next to another could be covered by half an inch an inch or a foot. For example at 135m the speed of the shot has slowed considerably compared to what it was at 40 m but the clay is still traveling at its same 75mph making the diameter and length of shot string all of a sudden more important, there could be a chance of a secondary impact at 135 m that may not happen at 40 m, just theory of course but the possibility increases ... I think     I love these theoretical ramblings.

 

[Kentskeet]

OK you made me do this so don't blame me when it all goes to poo

There is a fundamental flaw with shooting pattern plates or bits of paper to determine what is happening with the shot. The flaw is this, when a clay is shot at and the shot ball hits the clay the interaction of clay and lead shot occurs in 3D space (stay with me), BUT when you shoot a pattern plate or piece of paper the interaction becomes 2D. Why does it do this? Simple, the shot, when it hits a pattern plate, stops its original forward motion and loses all of its kinetic & potential energy almost immediately. When you shoot a clay, the shot that hits the clay continues its forward motion , albeit not necessarily on the original path, and only loses some of its kinetic and potential energy.

So what I hear you moan, well this interaction effects how the lead shot at the back of the ball reacts to the front of the ball hitting something, like a clay. When the ball hits a pattern plate the pressure the front of the ball creates as it hits the plate causes the following shot to form the pattern.

I'm just not thinking about things enough, that's made my brain feel pain reading that!

 

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

I love the way that the laws of physics and reality are suspended on this forum...... 

There is currently no "Official World Record" for the longest clay target according to Guiness Book of Records. If you want to do it properly it has to be done scientifically with correctly measured distances and adjudicators on hand. As far as Im aware nobody has yet attempted to do this in a controlled environment and with the evidence so far  ie it can be done but only sporadically I cant see anything making the record books at much more than 100 - 110 yards.  

 

[ips]

I love shot string debates, there such fun

 

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

Yeah, like being stuck in a lift for 6 hours with an accountant that doesn't know when to stop talking about accounting........

 

[jwpzx9r]

I love shot string debates, there such fun

Shot strings... my how we laughed ! Corse back in the day shot string was much less important than it is today ... global  warming has a lot to answer for :sweat:   :haha:

 

[ips]

Yes john it is a new phenomenon, recently discovered and as yet not fully understood

But how we love to analyse it

 

[Hamster]

Absolutely Matt it is a 3D event not only for the shot but also the target. For example a piece of shot hitting the clay can change its flight path and its original attitude to the plane of the shot string. Again for example a edge on target could the be hit by a piece of shot face side on after the original edge on hit. At 150 meters the "shot string" takes on a much greater importance than at 40 meters the diameter is far greater and the length is longer too making the chance non simultaneous impacts far greater, only in my opinion. Oooppps said shot string again

Multiple impacts do not necessarily increase the probability of the clay target breaking. Let me explain, imagine us shooting a regular 40 yard quartering with size 7.5's, we all accept the pattern is three dimensional and tear drop shaped so it's a reasonable assumption that the visual signature of the clay shattering has come about via multiple strikes that did NOT all arrive simultaneously ! There must be minute time differences with every strike albeit the clay has all but moved less than inch.

This then MUST mean that the clay doesn't feel the hits and start off by saying: Ouch, what the hell was that, then go: Forcryingoutloud, then go: this better stop soon or I'm gonna reach my break point. I'm being perfectly serious here, this is an inanimate object that responds to individual forces, it doesn't get tenderised by the first soldiers. 

There is further evidence of this in real life when championship shoots have suffered from clays being used that did not break as easily as we know they should, scores were down because of it so we KNOW single OR multiple strikes were insufficient to break these substandard clays.

The clay is in fact at it's most vulnerable when it's whole and complete, if you don't believe me try breaking a clay by hand and then progressively the smaller pieces, you'll find it gets harder and harder as the pieces get smaller. YET we manage to pulverise the whole clay with multiple strikes, some of which (perhaps even the majority) impact the already broken clays remaining pieces.

Again a Dr. Andrew has done extensive tests and concluded that a single strike is all that's needed to break a clay most of the time. The 135 yard Teal is not about accuracy but simply the huge improbability of one pellet finding its mark.

 

[Hawkeye]

OK you made me do this so don't blame me when it all goes to poo

There is a fundamental flaw with shooting pattern plates or bits of paper to determine what is happening with the shot. The flaw is this, when a clay is shot at and the shot ball hits the clay the interaction of clay and lead shot occurs in 3D space (stay with me), BUT when you shoot a pattern plate or piece of paper the interaction becomes 2D. Why does it do this? Simple, the shot, when it hits a pattern plate, stops its original forward motion and loses all of its kinetic & potential energy almost immediately. When you shoot a clay, the shot that hits the clay continues its forward motion , albeit not necessarily on the original path, and only loses some of its kinetic and potential energy.

So what I hear you moan, well this interaction effects how the lead shot at the back of the ball reacts to the front of the ball hitting something, like a clay. When the ball hits a pattern plate the pressure the front of the ball creates as it hits the plate causes the following shot to form the pattern.

duuuuhh , wots 3D ?