Birds only

[move-mount-miss]

I've shot a couple of 90s this period but no way am I a AA shooter.

Ok make it 4 5 6 in a period or twice in a month or anything that helps give steady shooters an incentive to go comp. But using scores based on what people were doing 12 or 18 months ago is plain daft.

 

[chippy]

Ok make it 4 5 6 in a period or twice in a month or anything that helps give steady shooters an incentive to go comp. But using scores based on what people were doing 12 or 18 months ago is plain daft.

But in both cases of me shooting 90s the shoots were high scoring so taking percentages off scores rather than 100 would prevent me going up a class so that would work as well. And of course if it was as extremely hard shoot it would prevent me going down.

 

[move-mount-miss]

If you want to grade the difficulty of a shoot just use an average taken from A class. High gun is normally super human so not really relevant and C class can throw up some random stuff but A normally shows a true reflection.

 

[Will Hewland]

HG is definitely not the way to judge scores. To hit 98, you are way off the scale and the factors required are:

Have been shooting since the Sex Pistols were nailing it.

Have not had nasty row with wife.

Journey to shoot was great.

Stopped one drink short of too many night before.

Been shooting same gun for at least a year. Or shooting it first time ever. 

Bacon roll was spot on.

Clothing seemed perfect..

 

[wylye]

Its easy. Every time you shoot better than normal and win money you go up a class - then every time you shoot badly you go down a class. Simple really, thats what everyone wants.

 

[Dick Arbon]

I think it would be possible to work off of the true average score from each shoot rather than high gun or anything from the top end of the scores because they are the extremes. The true average would obviously then reflect the relative toughness of the round and you would be scored, for classing reasons, plus or minus from the real average. I also think it would make sand bagging far more complicated to get right.

 

[Jeremy Baker]

I hear that Steve Lovatt will be banning 'birds only' ?

какой укол.

Irrespective of your thoughts on Birds only why would you use language like that?

This isn't some трущоба where you get to убивать людей in public. 

Be respectful. 

 

[Salopian]

Jeremy ,

 You do surprise me at what a sheltered life you lead if you have not seen the vile language and comments used on this site and Facebook , especially by Mr . Lovatt Esquire.

'Prick'  a puncture wound or irritation.

Now 

Down to business,

I would like to apologise to Steve Lovatt unreservedly for sighting him in this controversial thread, I acted in good faith on information given to me.

see English Sporting Clays topic on Facebook.

Some people need to realise that the average wage is extremely low and that the vast majority of clubmen cannot afford to contribute to a  prize fund that they have little or no chance of getting a return from.

Those of you asking for birds only entries to stop  will actually harm the sport.

Why shouldn't a 'Birds only ' shot contest a major championship?

Fortunately I have shot for many years and still thoroughly enjoy it, I have always when possible shot 'birds only' I have been fortunate in that time to have been able to beat many fine shots and I have never begrudged them picking up prize money but not equalling my score.

 

[Finners]

Then you’re a wassock amateur that doesn’t deserve a grading. It’s very simple..

Oi! I resemble that remark, all of it.

 

[Westward]

Clay shooting really is the sport that time forgot. In fact the whole sporting gun industry seems to exist in some time warp from the 1970s.

Everything is on line these days and there's nothing technically preventing us from being reclassified every time we register a score. Once the rules have been defined, the algorithm to work it out is trivial and the infrastructure and hardware have been available for years.

The reality is that all the registered scores and classifications for the entire membership could be recalculated on a mid range smartphone in a few seconds.

 

[Sian]

I think change is needed, I understand the concept and benefits of going up and down class according to how you shoot, on a regular basis and I understand that doing so may be more beneficial for people to win prizes more in accordance with a class of equal ability but I think less than every three months i.e. every week or every shoot would be too complicated - not for the computers of course but for actual shooters to remember what class they are that week and I would go up and down like a frigging yo yo.  I also think that the majority of grounds are probably able to cope with that sort of regular change but there are some grounds that simply would not be able to cope - they may barely get internet on a given day and rely on the shooter telling them their class and number.  

 

[Will Hewland]

The present system of classification every six months - and this looks back 12 months each time - obviously started before a computer was involved and also before so many shooters were doing 50+ events per year. It’s as obvious as nuts on a dog that change is needed. Just the shift to 3 monthly would be a great step for now and maybe permanently.

 

[Sian]

The present system of classification every six months - and this looks back 12 months each time - obviously started before a computer was involved and also before so many shooters were doing 50+ events per year. It’s as obvious as nuts on a dog that change is needed. Just the shift to 3 monthly would be a great step for now and maybe permanently.

I agree

In May 2017(?) my sport trap average stood at about 77. something percent then came sort out time and all my really good shoots disappeared and left me with an average of about 74 something. Okay not hugely different but I was moved to B at the cut off.  Then this period I have had some doozies, changed guns, borrowed guns etc etc and consequently my average went down and by cut off I think I will be heading back to C class and although after the cut off period my dalliance into floodlit sportrap the other night has brought my average down to about 69. something.  Thing is I now have six months ahead of me shooting in C Class because that is what my average says I should be in but my ability would suggest otherwise and if I actually put 100% effort in then I could be wearing the sandbagging crown before I know it.

 

[Will Hewland]

I agree

In May 2017(?) my sport trap average stood at about 77. something percent then came sort out time and all my really good shoots disappeared and left me with an average of about 74 something. Okay not hugely different but I was moved to B at the cut off.  Then this period I have had some doozies, changed guns, borrowed guns etc etc and consequently my average went down and by cut off I think I will be heading back to C class and although after the cut off period my dalliance into floodlit sportrap the other night has brought my average down to about 69. something.  Thing is I now have six months ahead of me shooting in C Class because that is what my average says I should be in but my ability would suggest otherwise and if I actually put 100% effort in then I could be wearing the sandbagging crown before I know it.

That’s a separate thing. People do have genuine patches of lower performance for whatever reason. But again, it would only be odd for 3 months not a possible year with a change to the system.

 

[Salopian]

Perhaps we are all getting too caught up in this and overthinking it???

Motor Racing has championships, if you want to enter you get kitted out and enter, you prepare yourself and your car and compete , end of.

Shooting , prepare yourself , buy the best gun and cartridges you can afford and compete, end of.

It is meant to be recreational , chillax and enjoy.

Do away with classes , just get out in the fresh air , meet friends , shoot , relax , enjoy.

 

[Sian]

Do away with classes , just get out in the fresh air , meet friends , shoot , relax , enjoy.

Funnily enough I am trying to get back to just that.

 

[Westward]

I think change is needed, I understand the concept and benefits of going up and down class according to how you shoot, on a regular basis and I understand that doing so may be more beneficial for people to win prizes more in accordance with a class of equal ability but I think less than every three months i.e. every week or every shoot would be too complicated - not for the computers of course but for actual shooters to remember what class they are that week and I would go up and down like a frigging yo yo.  I also think that the majority of grounds are probably able to cope with that sort of regular change but there are some grounds that simply would not be able to cope - they may barely get internet on a given day and rely on the shooter telling them their class and number.  

I see what you mean but I think there's an amateurish culture right across the board. For example new television technology means that my sons, between them, have about 3 perfectly good flat screen TVs virtually surplus to requirements. This is probably a pretty common situation, yet 3 of my local grounds are still writing scores on a whiteboard, even though there is electricity and internet access available at those grounds. It only takes one cheap cable to hook up a TV to a computer!

And I simply can't fathom what it is that's stopping live, real time scores being available and accessible with a phone app or computer? As I said, the tech has been available for years, isn't expensive and the software is simple. This would enable anyone to check their scores, averages and classification at any time, just like checking email or FB.

The hardest part of the exercise would be working out and agreeing a few tweaks to the classification rules.

 

[schmokinn]

Jeremy ,

 You do surprise me at what a sheltered life you lead if you have not seen the vile language and comments used on this site and Facebook , especially by Mr . Lovatt Esquire.

'Prick'  a puncture wound or irritation.

Now 

Down to business,

I would like to apologise to Steve Lovatt unreservedly for sighting him in this controversial thread, I acted in good faith on information given to me.

see English Sporting Clays topic on Facebook.

Some people need to realise that the average wage is extremely low and that the vast majority of clubmen cannot afford to contribute to a  prize fund that they have little or no chance of getting a return from.

Those of you asking for birds only entries to stop  will actually harm the sport.

Why shouldn't a 'Birds only ' shot contest a major championship?

Fortunately I have shot for many years and still thoroughly enjoy it, I have always when possible shot 'birds only' I have been fortunate in that time to have been able to beat many fine shots and I have never begrudged them picking up prize money but not equalling my score.

Recently i have seen several things suggested to besmirch Steve's reputation,somebody obviously has it in for him.

I would suggest ignoring anything knocking him at the moment as there appears to be an effort to damage his reputation and business by making up sh*te on a weekly basis.

 

[MJJ]

It’s as obvious as nuts on a dog

Not on mine its not 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

ANY percentage based system is bogus.  The only system that would actually represent ability is a win/position based system with points for finishing position and NOTHING to do with score.

just like motor racing dochano