British Compak GP
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Dunc
Well-known member
Was the person making the accusations actually there when the distraction was given.
What I do know is that when I was shooting at Churchill's last week, a live pigeon was within inches of getting a load of shot from me. Pity I wasn't as close to the clay.
What I do know is that when I was shooting at Churchill's last week, a live pigeon was within inches of getting a load of shot from me. Pity I wasn't as close to the clay.
I was going to ask the same on FB to the accuser but i got to the point where i couldn't be arsed!
the last registered I shot at EJC I got distracted by 6 pheasants walking the line of the top of the bank within 4ft of the kill point of the clay and helicopters galore taking off!
Dunc
Well-known member
As mentioned early in this thread re the possibility of sour grapes, it seems to me that there's a large measure of sour grapes from the one doing the complaining. And some of the accusations seem to be more than a little personal.....
I spoke to someone earlier tonight who was actually standing behind the shooter when it happened and he said exactly the same as k80ben.
Jeremy Baker
Well-known member
I called for two pairs to be repeated.
One was a sim pair and the pair wasn't coming the same time as previous shooters. IE one bird was delayed.
I missed the second bird, raised my hand asked if the pair was as intended.
The ref said pair again which I hit. (Three shooters later the battery was replaced)
Second situation was a little clearer, Sim pair with three targets in the sky.
If the shooter asks for a distraction or no bird it's not cheating. The Referee has the decision to throw the pair again or not.
All shooters have the right to protest. It's not cheating.
On another note watching John Lee shoot 25-25-25-25 on Friday was awesome. He was over the moon.
Well shot @k80ben great shooting in the two days and final.
One was a sim pair and the pair wasn't coming the same time as previous shooters. IE one bird was delayed.
I missed the second bird, raised my hand asked if the pair was as intended.
The ref said pair again which I hit. (Three shooters later the battery was replaced)
Second situation was a little clearer, Sim pair with three targets in the sky.
If the shooter asks for a distraction or no bird it's not cheating. The Referee has the decision to throw the pair again or not.
All shooters have the right to protest. It's not cheating.
On another note watching John Lee shoot 25-25-25-25 on Friday was awesome. He was over the moon.
Well shot @k80ben great shooting in the two days and final.
donna
Well-known member
well, firstly I would like to say the targets at the shoot were excellent. A whole new electronic system was used (which is used abroad) and the refs and shooters alike were not really sure how it worked to start with. It took us over an hour to shoot first layout! The computer thinks you have hit your target unless the ref presses a button telling it that the target was lost. When that button was pressed, the shooter, other refs and spectators could hear it, so in some cases the button was pressed as in bird lost when in actual fact the target was killed and vice versa. I saw on one layout a target continuously second barrelled and it was very hard to tell if it was lost or killed and the ref was giving the benefit of the doubt and giving it as a kill. The other ref explained that once the next shooters green light button has come on to shoot there was nothing they could do about the mistakes so I saw an awful lot of people coming off to sign their card only to say no, I didn't shoot a 21 I had an 23 (for example) and it was just put on the card to add on another 2! I saw more people given targets when they had lost them rather than the other way round but in those instances they never said anything about it and just accepted the score. The only other way round this is I suppose is if the ref actually said "lost or killed" at the time but only 1 ref was doing that on 1 layout. I think because of the long delays on day 1 people just wanted to shoot. I had a very long delay on first layout of first day, I had seen the targets but not shot them then system went down and it was at least 20-30 mins before I shot, I never saw the targets again and couldn't remember where they were coming from etc. there were lots of birds flying around, including big birds (helicopters!) and I didn't see the incident mentioned above but what I did see regarding people given birds when they had lost them was not a sight I wish to see again. It wasn't once or twice, it was happening the whole 2 days.
The system used made it feel like a production line and it was purely to get numbers through. Personally I didn't like it, I like shooting in a squad and getting to know them people and making new friends from here and abroad and sticking with them all the way round. This system meant that as soon as you finished shooting you just trotted off to the next layout to look at the targets.
I am glad I done the shoot but felt very sorry for the refs as they were getting a lot of stick which they didn't deserve but as I said there was a lot of cheating going on by a lot of people but it needs to be addressed at the time, not later.
The system used made it feel like a production line and it was purely to get numbers through. Personally I didn't like it, I like shooting in a squad and getting to know them people and making new friends from here and abroad and sticking with them all the way round. This system meant that as soon as you finished shooting you just trotted off to the next layout to look at the targets.
I am glad I done the shoot but felt very sorry for the refs as they were getting a lot of stick which they didn't deserve but as I said there was a lot of cheating going on by a lot of people but it needs to be addressed at the time, not later.
As much as I love popcorn, life has taught me not to jump in and start punching with a crowd just cos it feels like the right thing to do at the time. Unfortunately as Evoracer will testify that was exactly how it all appeared on the social media frenzy last night.
It was obvious enough that a distraction had been claimed, what wasn't clear was who had witnessed it first hand and whether it in any way constituted deliberate cheating. The majority seemed to be enjoying the kickin sesh with one or two exceptions who should now be rightly proud of themselves for sticking up for their mate.
It sounds very much like an entirely innocent mishap, putting ones hand up should be enough, it's not his fault the tempo and speed of the line had meant the next shooter had already called for his targets (hell I've called for targets before it was even my turn before now - true story :lol: ) so no blame can apportioned.
As others have said what a fantastic display of accuracy from some of the shooters, wish I was there to see it.
It was obvious enough that a distraction had been claimed, what wasn't clear was who had witnessed it first hand and whether it in any way constituted deliberate cheating. The majority seemed to be enjoying the kickin sesh with one or two exceptions who should now be rightly proud of themselves for sticking up for their mate.
It sounds very much like an entirely innocent mishap, putting ones hand up should be enough, it's not his fault the tempo and speed of the line had meant the next shooter had already called for his targets (hell I've called for targets before it was even my turn before now - true story :lol: ) so no blame can apportioned.
As others have said what a fantastic display of accuracy from some of the shooters, wish I was there to see it.
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P1Fanatic
Well-known member
I started reading that Rachel Carrie's FB thread but lost any respect when she resorted to calling people c***s and *******.
Jim Wheeler
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 904
P1fanatic, I couldn't agree more.disgusting `behaviour` from that person.
I only put the link up because it was asked for, as a friend had sent it to me.
I feel sometimes people do push it, and keep quite if given a kill, but the opposite can happen too, where a no bird is claimed ,arguing with the ref, etc,,
however, I feel that all the top shooters, in fact, most people are beyond reproach ,and totally honest . you do not last long if caught out.!
I only put the link up because it was asked for, as a friend had sent it to me.
I feel sometimes people do push it, and keep quite if given a kill, but the opposite can happen too, where a no bird is claimed ,arguing with the ref, etc,,
however, I feel that all the top shooters, in fact, most people are beyond reproach ,and totally honest . you do not last long if caught out.!
Dunc
Well-known member
There is some doubt apparently to the species of bird, but not that there was a bird!!. In fact, there may have been two birds....
And that is apparently fair reason for a 'distraction' - from the rules.
As far as I can make out from the foul mouthed and abusive thread, only 2 posters in that FB thread were actually there and both of them saw a bird....
So what on earth is all the bitching about?
Particularly from someone who wasn't even there.....?????
Does she have an axe to grind?
And that is apparently fair reason for a 'distraction' - from the rules.
As far as I can make out from the foul mouthed and abusive thread, only 2 posters in that FB thread were actually there and both of them saw a bird....
So what on earth is all the bitching about?
Particularly from someone who wasn't even there.....?????
Does she have an axe to grind?
David Paul Gag
Well-known member
Well shot Ben
shame about all the Crap
K80 GAG
shame about all the Crap
K80 GAG
leighH
Well-known member
Its unfortunate that an event enjoyed by the majority of the shooters has been rather tainted, so as one of the Referees there I will expand on a few things.
The Electronic System
This was new to us all, and although most of us were there the day before it was operating in practice mode where shooters swiped in using a card, so we had no direct experience of the line system until the first morning, and unfortunately it showed with the pressing of wrong buttons etc. However I did feel things were smoother after the first morning.
Scoring
To record a loss the zero button is pressed accordingly and the speaker sounds. One of the problems was this was not always audible or distinct enough, and FITASC have asked the manufacturers to rectify this. This meant at times the Ref and/or the shooter was unsure if the loss had been recorded. the only way is to turn around to look at the monitor, (if you could see it) and by which time the next shooter has called for their target. The Ref Donna mentions was calling losses because there was no sound coming for Zeros.
There were glitches with scores higher or lower than the shooters expected, the only record was what was on the screen, so it was difficult to sort anything out on the spot especially as the shooters score disappears from the screen. There is a facility to download data from the computer to check the number of zeros registered against particular shooters numbers.
Refereeing
It was a baptism of fire for all the Refs, and no doubt a few mistakes were made on calls. Simultaneous doubles are particularly difficult in Compak to Ref as you cannot fire at the same bird twice, kill 2 targets with one shot, or indeed if you go for one target miss and happen to hit the other then it is pair lost.
Distractions
As mentioned before there is a lot of flying objects around the ground (animal or otherwise) so quite a number of distractions were claimed. Unlike FITASC or English sporting the Ref is not always close to the shooter so does not see exactly what they see, so would have to be pretty certain to turn the request down.
'Pigeongate'
I happened to be walking behind this layout at the time looking for a shooter for another layout. Whilst I was not particularly watching the shooting I glanced across to stand 5 to see k80ben kill an orange target just before a pigeon flew over his and subsequently my head, and verify his version of events after that.
On a more positive note there was a great set of targets set by Eric Mansoven, the weather was ideal for shooting and a good entry of Continental shooters. All the problems should be eliminated for the Worlds, pencilled in there for August.
Regards
Leigh
The Electronic System
This was new to us all, and although most of us were there the day before it was operating in practice mode where shooters swiped in using a card, so we had no direct experience of the line system until the first morning, and unfortunately it showed with the pressing of wrong buttons etc. However I did feel things were smoother after the first morning.
Scoring
To record a loss the zero button is pressed accordingly and the speaker sounds. One of the problems was this was not always audible or distinct enough, and FITASC have asked the manufacturers to rectify this. This meant at times the Ref and/or the shooter was unsure if the loss had been recorded. the only way is to turn around to look at the monitor, (if you could see it) and by which time the next shooter has called for their target. The Ref Donna mentions was calling losses because there was no sound coming for Zeros.
There were glitches with scores higher or lower than the shooters expected, the only record was what was on the screen, so it was difficult to sort anything out on the spot especially as the shooters score disappears from the screen. There is a facility to download data from the computer to check the number of zeros registered against particular shooters numbers.
Refereeing
It was a baptism of fire for all the Refs, and no doubt a few mistakes were made on calls. Simultaneous doubles are particularly difficult in Compak to Ref as you cannot fire at the same bird twice, kill 2 targets with one shot, or indeed if you go for one target miss and happen to hit the other then it is pair lost.
Distractions
As mentioned before there is a lot of flying objects around the ground (animal or otherwise) so quite a number of distractions were claimed. Unlike FITASC or English sporting the Ref is not always close to the shooter so does not see exactly what they see, so would have to be pretty certain to turn the request down.
'Pigeongate'
I happened to be walking behind this layout at the time looking for a shooter for another layout. Whilst I was not particularly watching the shooting I glanced across to stand 5 to see k80ben kill an orange target just before a pigeon flew over his and subsequently my head, and verify his version of events after that.
On a more positive note there was a great set of targets set by Eric Mansoven, the weather was ideal for shooting and a good entry of Continental shooters. All the problems should be eliminated for the Worlds, pencilled in there for August.
Regards
Leigh
Allegedly, but you have to sign for your score so whose fault is that?
In golf you would be disqualified for signing for the wrong score.
Rosso
Well-known member
Surely if the gun was fired and the first target was missed and the report bird is let out and hit its a loss / kill otherwise why would the reff let out the report bird! Did he not see the pigeon.
Must have thought he could hit the clay if he pulled the trigger. Why was the report bird shot at? I would have lowered the gun at the point of distraction, even after firing, that way not interfering with the progress of the shoot and bringing it to the refs attention immediately not after someone else has shot.
Must have thought he could hit the clay if he pulled the trigger. Why was the report bird shot at? I would have lowered the gun at the point of distraction, even after firing, that way not interfering with the progress of the shoot and bringing it to the refs attention immediately not after someone else has shot.
Mike L
Well-known member
Rachel Carrie ?............now that's a bird to be distracted by! :kiss:
Ian Lawrence
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2015
- Messages
- 277
Next time I'm in the "Hot seat" on a pheasant drive, I must remember to be distracted by all the birds crossing over each other at various heights and speeds and make the appropriate protest to the shoot organiser!
If you can't pick the target you intend to shoot, and concentrate on that alone, then you are lost. It comes with experience and practice, so get on with it and stop bleating about "distraction!"
Clay shooters are such a fussy bunch aren't they? If there wasn't money involved corrupting pure sport, then this would be considered a fun challenge.
If you can't pick the target you intend to shoot, and concentrate on that alone, then you are lost. It comes with experience and practice, so get on with it and stop bleating about "distraction!"
Clay shooters are such a fussy bunch aren't they? If there wasn't money involved corrupting pure sport, then this would be considered a fun challenge.
Dunc
Well-known member
Must say that I've rarely seen in the field the sort of shooting skill demonstrated by the likes of Husthwaite, Digweed, Lee, Winser, Hendrick and Faulds. So maybe we're talking apples and oranges here. Most/some of these guys are professionals so some 'fussiness' is not unreasonable nor unexpected, IMHO - when one or two clays is the difference between success and failure. However, as in everything, there are of course limits but at this top level, we've gone beyond 'fun'.
These are professional shooters and I doubt that any sport at this level would be much different.
POS
NAME
R.1
R.2
R.3
R.4
R.5
R.6
R.7
R.8
TOTAL
1
BEN HUSTHWAITE
24
24
25
24
25
25
24
25
196+25
2
GEORGE DIGWEED
25
24
24
25
25
25
24
24
196+23
3
JOHN LEE
25
25
25
25
22
25
25
24
196+21
4
WINSER, Mark
24
24
24
25
24
25
25
24
195
5
HENDRICK, Nick
23
23
25
24
24
25
25
25
194
5
FAULDS, Richard
24
23
24
24
24
25
25
25
194
