CPSA English Sporting Rules

[Mr Potter]

Has anyone seen an article in the June issue of Sporting Gun by Mark Russell (Grimsthorpe Shooting Ground proprietor), it's at the foot of page 9 and has a sub heading HIT & MISS.

It's not very long but I'll pick out the relevent bits;

Basically says if you are shooting report pairs at English Sporting and you miss the first bird and the referee calls the 2nd bird a "no bird" you have lost nothing, you are entitled to have the pair again, this time if you hit the first bird this time it scores. Similarly if you kill the first bird and the second is a "no bird" you can ask for the first bird to be "established" as a kill with just the second bird of the repeated pair to be counted.

The author goes onto say that this is no way against the rules or unethical, it's simply knowing the rules and using them to your advantage!

Well I've always believed that in the circumstances above that the rule was "first bird established" as either a kill or a loss and that would be entered on your scorecard, pair would be repeated but with only the 2nd bird to count.

I know I should look it up on the CPSA website but I thought I'd throw it into the Shoot Clay arena and we could kick it about abit.

Is my understanding correct or have I missed a trick for all these years cos you've got to admit it is bloody infuriating to kill the first bird of a repeated pair that you missed on the first go and hear the scorer call "loss/kill" or "loss/loss" when you've just turned that first bird to soot.

Any thoughts?

Mr Potter

 

[Hamster]

I admit to finding this a little confusing myself when reading it. Perhaps he meant following pairs as in 2nd bird follows at a given pace regardless of how quickly you fire at the first?

 

[Will Hewland]

Following pair is like sim pair. Nothing established if taken again.

Report pair is ifrst bird established of course

CSC3

 

[optima]

I too read this and assumed that it was a misprint, i was at a shoot on weekend and witnessed this several times, the scorer's were acctually saying first bird established, only 2nd bird to count, surely we can,t all have been doing it wrong all these years!!!

 

[Fuzrat]

Absolute Bunkum, just read the technical rules for esp on the cpsa site and states quite clearly that in the event of a second bird no-target the result of the shot on the first target will stand. Also you have to make a reasonable attempt to hit the first target on the repeat pair. Failure to do so (in the refs view) 3 times will result in a second bird loss. Rules 7.18 and 7.19 page 20-21

Linky here http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1uzy6/BookletNo7TechnicalR/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Ffree.yudu.com%2Fitem%2Fdetails%2F449451%2FBooklet-No-7---Technical-Rules%3Frefid%3D112173

Sorry guys I was hoping for a break but no joy

 

[** Pending Removal **]

No such thing as a following pair. It is called a Rapale double and it is scored exactly the same as a Simo pair only difference is it is thrown from the same trap.

If the trap or target malfunctions then it is nothing established and the birds are shot again.

A report pair is first bird established if the second trap or bird malfunctions. The birds are then thrown again with the first bird established. Anyone who says different is a numptie who should not be allowed to enter a competition until they know the rules.

Sometimes I just can't get my breath with all the rubbish that goes around. Maybe I should retire!!!

 

[Rob C]

Sometimes I just can't get my breath with all the rubbish that goes around. Maybe I should retire!!!

Your knickers arn't twitsted by any chance.?

 

[VicW]

No such thing as a following pair. It is called a Rapale double and it is scored exactly the same as a Simo pair only difference is it is thrown from the same trap.

Sorry to nit pick Nic but I think it's called a 'rafaele' pair,sounds Frog to me,and I think it's a pair where one is launched one behind the other from the same trap.

Their closeness is governed by the speed with which the trap cycles.One of the clubs I go to puts them on and their trap cycles fast enough to have two in the air together,one behind the other.

Vic.

 

[Will Hewland]

Nic, there is a following in ESP I think. Rafale pair is the term used in Fitasc for the same thing.

 

[Hamster]

http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1uzy6/BookletNo7TechnicalR/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Ffree.yudu.com%2Fitem%2Fdetails%2F449451%2FBooklet-No-7---Technical-Rules%3Frefid%3D112173

The rules seem to suggest there is such a a thing as following pairs (pages 18-19 - 7.01 @ 7.06)

 

[Will Hewland]

Rafaele is a mutant ninja turtle

 

[TobyM]

I haven't seen the article but I'm very surprised the owner of one of the better grounds has said this

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I only considerFitasc when talking sporting........because everyone takes their ideas from them. If you look on the FITASC rules (Vic) you will find It is as I have stated.

Whathisname........knickers never in twist with me.......I am too organised. Why assume the negative. Wish I had not bothered answering. No wish to be anyone's whipping boy.......I am off!

If you don't want the info don't ask.

 

[Fuzrat]

Heres one for you, it states that Helice targets may be used (7.03), then 7.08 on trajectories says at each stand the trajectories must be the same height distance and speed for each competitor :huh: never seen an Helice come out the same :.:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Heres one for you, it states that Helice targets may be used (7.03), then 7.08 on trajectories says at each stand the trajectories must be the same height distance and speed for each competitor :huh: never seen an Helice come out the same <img src='http://www.shootclayforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':.:' />

Quite Fuzzy.

They talk crap.

Do you know iPhone is rubbish for posting. You cannot see what is above the box you are typing in.

Rob C ........you were whathisname........I could not see (laughs)

 

[Hamster]

You could kind of say the same for some rabbit stands too, not to mention the vagaries of weather affected targets on different or even the same day.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

You could kind of say the same for some rabbit stands too, not to mention the vagaries of weather affected targets on different or even the same day.

You obviously have never shot Helice.

 

[Mr Potter]

No such thing as a following pair. It is called a Rapale double and it is scored exactly the same as a Simo pair only difference is it is thrown from the same trap.

If the trap or target malfunctions then it is nothing established and the birds are shot again.

A report pair is first bird established if the second trap or bird malfunctions. The birds are then thrown again with the first bird established. Anyone who says different is a numptie who should not be allowed to enter a competition until they know the rules.

Sometimes I just can't get my breath with all the rubbish that goes around. Maybe I should retire!!!

Think you're confusing English Sporting terminology with FITASC Sporting Nicola,

CPSA Booklet No. 7 Technical Rules, P18 Section 7 Technical Rules for English Sporting,

Definition FOLLOWING PAIR

7.06 Is a pair where the second target is launched from the same trap as soon as it is safely possible after the first target.

The FITASC Rules for International Sporting describe the same target presentation as a Rafale Double (4.2.3) and add that the targets may be shot in any order.

Regards

Mr Potter

 

[Hamster]

You obviously have never shot Helice.

Correct, which is why I wasn't referring to those.