CPSA English Sporting Rules

[VicW]

I won't say I have refereed but as someone who has done a fair bit of buttoning and scoring I have found it fatal to watch the shooter when you are expecting them to call for the bird.

Some shooters move their lips but say nothing and it is all too easy to assume that they are about to call pull and press the button.

The buttoner should of course be looking for the clay to check that it is a good bird.

Some traps are slow to fire,either because it's their nature or sometimes because the battery is flat,hence causing a delay in seeing the bird.

Vic.

 

[Mr Potter]

I made an arse of it on Sunday, killed the first 4 pair on a stand, then, pull.......(about 3 seconds)........pull.........about 5 seconds........looked over my shoulder at the scorer and seen him frantically banging the button, caught a glimps of the clay flying over my head, followed by a thumbs up from the scorer, turned round and had a poke at a dropping clay then killed the next bird on report.

"loss and kill"

" Oh, come on.....no bird!!"

"Would have been, if you hadn't shot"

Lesson learned!!!

This "you shot at it so you must have accepted it" is I think a load of tosh, the bird is either a regular target or a "no bird" and it is the job of the referee to make that call not the shooter. if the ref decides it was an irregular target he should call "no bird" irrespective of whether the shooter takes a shot or not.

If anything you are chancing it if you don't take a shot, as above it's the refs decision if a target is regular or not and if you don't take a shot at a bird YOU think is a "no bird" but the ref doesn't then it's a definite loss and if that is a simo pair it will be pair lost.

Don't know if it's a rule but most refs don't like you to shoot at a target once they've called it a no bird.

One of the problems in registered English Sporting is the variability in refereeing standards, I don't have to name names but I'm sure we all know grounds where there is no pretence of qualified refs, un-enthusiastic markers can be the norm and if my original post on this thread is correct some ground owners don't even know the regulations!!

Potter

 

[timps]

Don't know if it's a rule but most refs don't like you to shoot at a target once they've called it a no bird.

Yep it sure is.....

NO TARGET

3.15 After a target has been declared a “No Target” it is no longer part of the competition. When a Referee has declared a target a “No Target”, on NO ACCOUNT must it be shot at. When a No-target is deliberately or intentionally shot at, the Referee will warn the Competitor and mark the scorecard accordingly. Should there be a subsequent occurrence within the same stage/stand the Referee will report the matter to the jury for a decision in relation to loss of target.

 

[Hamster]

This "you shot at it so you must have accepted it" is I think a load of tosh, the bird is either a regular target or a "no bird" and it is the job of the referee to make that call not the shooter. if the ref decides it was an irregular target he should call "no bird" irrespective of whether the shooter takes a shot or not.

If anything you are chancing it if you don't take a shot, as above it's the refs decision if a target is regular or not and if you don't take a shot at a bird YOU think is a "no bird" but the ref doesn't then it's a definite loss and if that is a simo pair it will be pair lost.

Potter

That is how I see it too and pretty sure I've read experienced advice that in competition you're better off attempting to shoot the clays regardless of your own perception unless you hear the ref declare a no bird. In theory at least you should be able to request a repeat pair if a miss should occur but I can easily see how a ref may try and palm you off with you shouldn't have shot but as highlighted it is his/her job to see fair flight of clays.

 

[pete121]

It wants sorting out in an official capacity Matt.

We must have some CPSA bods on here who aren't afraid to challenge the heirarchy to justify their sloppy crap.

Failing that, I'll write to them myself, which could be counter-productive :.: :.: :.:

Can I swap my mortarboard for a pointy hat? :.:

Interested to discuss what we can do to improve our rules and regulations at any time. We have built some very strong foundations in this area in the last couple of years, upon which we are now able to effectively develop and move our rules and regulations into the future.

Please feel welcome to email me [email protected] or call me. We can then put a change request together for peer review.

Pete

 

[Chard]

Can I swap my mortarboard for a pointy hat? :.:

Interested to discuss what we can do to improve our rules and regulations at any time. We have built some very strong foundations in this area in the last couple of years, upon which we are now able to effectively develop and move our rules and regulations into the future.

Please feel welcome to email me [email protected] or call me. We can then put a change request together for peer review.

Pete

Fantastic stuff, Pete

I'll bang you off an email about this 3 second thing :.:

 

[Hawkeye]

wot 3 second thing?

 

[pete121]

If you drop your tasty lunchtime sandwich on the floor and pick it up within three seconds (“The Three Second Rule”)... it's still good to eat?

 

[paulos]

Can be extended to 10 seconds or more though, depending on how tasty it is/how drunk you are...

 

[Hawkeye]

wot if someone is watching?

 

[Darkside]

3 seconds in my house......a combination of a supper fast cocker pup and a guzzle guts Chesapeake stops food ever reaching a count of 4 on our floor!!!

 

[Fletch]

Having ref'd 3 or 4 times and been on the end of a tantrum over an alleged slow pull (I've been driving traps for about 12 years & I don't do slow pulls!), let's not forget those shooters whose call of P-u-u-u-u-u-u-l-l-l-l-l-l-l lasts about 2½ seconds. When do you launch? At the start of the call? Wait for about 1 second and launch in the middle or wait for the end of the call?
Funnily enough the shooter who got eggy, claimed a ****ing slow pull, then stormed off without shooting the last pair, has the longest call of all.

 

[Fletch]

Westward

Be very selective about posting accusations how you see them, as you admit to, probably the second time you scored and pressed the buttons at the same time.

I was directly behind you as you slow pressed the button(unintentionally) I appreciate, and the person in question shot at the target and missed and was frustrated at your inexperience although immediately gave up any argument ..

If any individual wants to give a long puuuuuuulllllll you press the remote at the first instant so do not criticise this issue..

I watched you score and you looked fingers and thumbs and I know the person in question would not lower himself to even defend himself on this issue and I apologise for defending him in public debate.

The person you are negative about is a close friend and a extremely honourable person and sportsman. As a ref you should not try to deface people who proved your inexperience. He left the stand and never mentioned a word or posted a comment about bad buttoning.

I will be more than happy to talk to you John on this matter this sunday.

 

[Westward]

Fletch,

I didn't mean to deface the shooter nor did I wish to suggest unsporting or dishonourable conduct. Of course we all get all get frustrated at times - I just think it was an overreaction to a situation which could easily have been settled by discussion. To my knowledge at least, no one else that day had any particular issue with my buttoning.

I have buttoned & scored hundreds of times, although at only a few registered shoots. As you know I shoot too, and when reffing I always try to avoid causing any problems to the shooters. I would be more than happy to meet up for a chat although not very likely for a couple of weeks.

ATB John