I have been informed by more knowledge shooters that beretta pattern tightly. Is this true . I normally use 1/4 and 1/2 but have been informed that I should change to skeet and cylinder to improve my score . Is this fact or fiction
Do beretta pattern tightly
- Thread starter Dannymac
- Start date
Help Support Clay, Trap, Skeet Shooting Forum:
chippy
Well-known member
You don't regularly need a 1/2 choke for sporting. If you don't want to change chokes go for 1/4 and 1/4
Myself I change chokes whenever I need to.
Myself I change chokes whenever I need to.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nigel Teague told me years ago that Berettas pattern tight and if anyone should know he would. At the time he was referring to Mobil chokes and I believe what he meant was the pattern was denser towards the centre than would be ideal.
A mate shoots with standard Optima chokes and I don't think he ever uses more than quarter. Seems to work okay for him but I can't be bothered to play with choke selection so I just shove a half in each barrel and go and shoot.
A mate shoots with standard Optima chokes and I don't think he ever uses more than quarter. Seems to work okay for him but I can't be bothered to play with choke selection so I just shove a half in each barrel and go and shoot.
Jonny English
Well-known member
I've got the beretta optima hp chokes and I only use 1/4 and 1/4. I shoot gamebore velocity plus 7 1/2s and it will break clays consistently out to 70 yards without breaking a sweat.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I'll call BS on the tighter patterns. Similarly dimensioned chokes will produce similar patterns. Everything Mr.Winston has done indicates that to be a simple truth. Measure a mobil tube and find anyone else's tube that is the same dimensionally. Pattern them both and analyse as rigorously as does Mr.Winston. Feel free to publish the documented data for the benefit of shooters the world over.
I'm prepared to be astounded. Go for it!!!!
I'm prepared to be astounded. Go for it!!!!
I would be inclined to agree with you Charlie. I read a review of a new extended choke made by some American company ( Briley ?) that had some sort of spiraled porting in them which were said to make some difference. Long story short the guy, cannot remember the name, tested them against many other makes of choke and analysed the data... properly and scientifically showing all the statistical data... the result? No statistically significant difference between any of the makes of chokes. The thing is that to the naked eye you can make some sort of judgement to favour one choke over another but when the data is properly crunched and the results analysed only then can you make that judgement... and this guy presented a review that was as good as a scientific paper!
I think it is more about what cartridge you would use that could make a difference... but provided the same cartridge was used for testing the results are going to be the same.
chippy
Well-known member
With optima chokes the red band skeet choke is more open than the blue band cylinder choke.
Last edited by a moderator:
schmokinn
Well-known member
Yes with Full and Full :biggrin:
How would you go about answering something like that ? I mean without knowing the parameters and criteria for what constitutes a tight pattern how would you know ? I have shot Beretta's all my life but I have also shot and owned many others and the only "visually significant" phenomenon I've noticed is that the yellow band Optima chokes seem to crush targets much harder than their 1/4 denomination ought to permit.
The only way academically or statistically valid conclusions can be made is if you count holes on a pattern plate and for that you'd have to prolly fire in the region of 2-3000 shots with Beretta's as well as other guns on the market; nobody has done that or is ever likely to.
I have incidentally also noticed seemingly mental
break signatures with a Zoli Kronos I used to own, the kills with 1/4 and 1/2 had to be seen to be believed. Does that prove anything though ! I'd go with Wonko here, if you take actual choke measurements into account the difference would be all but non existent.
The only way academically or statistically valid conclusions can be made is if you count holes on a pattern plate and for that you'd have to prolly fire in the region of 2-3000 shots with Beretta's as well as other guns on the market; nobody has done that or is ever likely to.
I have incidentally also noticed seemingly mental
break signatures with a Zoli Kronos I used to own, the kills with 1/4 and 1/2 had to be seen to be believed. Does that prove anything though ! I'd go with Wonko here, if you take actual choke measurements into account the difference would be all but non existent.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Once again - Mr. Winston's web site
http://www.claytargettesting.com/index.html
there is also a wealth of other data by him at trapshooters.com that has not been gathered into his web site. I have attempted to shame him into doing that but he seems impervious so if you're interested you'll have to search the site for his posts/comments.
He is as well perfectly ready to be corrected - you merely need furnish the properly gathered and collated data.
http://www.claytargettesting.com/index.html
there is also a wealth of other data by him at trapshooters.com that has not been gathered into his web site. I have attempted to shame him into doing that but he seems impervious so if you're interested you'll have to search the site for his posts/comments.
He is as well perfectly ready to be corrected - you merely need furnish the properly gathered and collated data.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jezek
Active member
Member jwpzx9r, in a post above, was likely referring to a test I did on Briley Helix chokes. The original, liked below, shows me that he has a remarkable memory, not just for the details of the test, but also for what testing can do in contrast to what looking at patterns can (not) do.
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Briley Helix/Briley_Helix_Test.pdf
I particularly agree with his last sentence: "I think it is more about what cartridge you would use that could make a difference... but provided the same cartridge was used for testing the results are going to be the same." Shooters here in the US commonly believe that "Every gun is a law unto itself." That is, what you get from guns is entirely unpredictable; there is no unifying thread among them at all. This is not true.* Most guns with similar constriction perform about the same. But how about guns with these 0.740" bores? Don't they perform better than the old 0.725"-0.729" bores? Don't they need less choke to get the same pattern percentages? Aren't their patterns more even?
http://claytargettesting.com/Bore_Diameter/Bore_Diameter.pdf
Jezek
*The idea, "Every gun is a law unto itself." was defensible - even apparently true - when it was unreasonable/practically impossible for shooters (or shotgun writers) to shoot enough patterns to see what was going on. In ten shots, patterns percentages can be expected to vary by 10%. Were a writer to shot a shot or two, it was likely that the result from two guns, or two kinds of shell, would look completely different.**
All that changed when Dr. Andrew Jones published his pattern-analysis program Shotgun Insight. Though it's still far from a trivial task, it was suddenly possible for an interested researcher to shoot enough patterns to fill in the gaps that just a couple of patterns seemed to display. There aren't any gaps. As the second report I linked to (above) shows, the similarity between the performance of guns of many designs that share nothing but their choke restrictions is so great that, to use Dr. Jones' words, "It looks like we are cheating."
I have conflicting evidence regarding a single example. that being Beretta Mobilchoke guns. If the weather cooperates, I hope to have something for readers here before ice completely takes over in Minnesota.
** You might want to consider the current run of shell tests in a popular UK shooting magazine in this light.
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Briley Helix/Briley_Helix_Test.pdf
I particularly agree with his last sentence: "I think it is more about what cartridge you would use that could make a difference... but provided the same cartridge was used for testing the results are going to be the same." Shooters here in the US commonly believe that "Every gun is a law unto itself." That is, what you get from guns is entirely unpredictable; there is no unifying thread among them at all. This is not true.* Most guns with similar constriction perform about the same. But how about guns with these 0.740" bores? Don't they perform better than the old 0.725"-0.729" bores? Don't they need less choke to get the same pattern percentages? Aren't their patterns more even?
http://claytargettesting.com/Bore_Diameter/Bore_Diameter.pdf
Jezek
*The idea, "Every gun is a law unto itself." was defensible - even apparently true - when it was unreasonable/practically impossible for shooters (or shotgun writers) to shoot enough patterns to see what was going on. In ten shots, patterns percentages can be expected to vary by 10%. Were a writer to shot a shot or two, it was likely that the result from two guns, or two kinds of shell, would look completely different.**
All that changed when Dr. Andrew Jones published his pattern-analysis program Shotgun Insight. Though it's still far from a trivial task, it was suddenly possible for an interested researcher to shoot enough patterns to fill in the gaps that just a couple of patterns seemed to display. There aren't any gaps. As the second report I linked to (above) shows, the similarity between the performance of guns of many designs that share nothing but their choke restrictions is so great that, to use Dr. Jones' words, "It looks like we are cheating."
I have conflicting evidence regarding a single example. that being Beretta Mobilchoke guns. If the weather cooperates, I hope to have something for readers here before ice completely takes over in Minnesota.
** You might want to consider the current run of shell tests in a popular UK shooting magazine in this light.
Last edited by a moderator:
Doctor Lecter
Well-known member
a measurement of choke constriction is equal across all manufactures ! cartridges can adjust patterns slightly .
