dogging in

[ips]

chance meeting with keeper of commercial shoot five mins from home has secured me dogging in whenever I like so good result. Eze is rock steady to dummies and steady to game in confinement of woods but not reliable in open land so ideal opportunity for steady training.

any tips for steadying to flush gratefully received. Bearing in mind I don't do scruffing and the like.

 

[balltrap]

Dogging in !!! ..................where the car park !!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sex

 

[ips]

not that sort ?

 

[balltrap]

not that sort i mean on my driveway in my car ?

:blink:

 

[Nicko]

What do you want to use the dog for when it's finished?  Will it be for beating, picking up or a peg dog?

If you want to use it for beating then dogging in is great practice.  Keep the sessions really short to start with and don't let him get to far in front.  They have a tendency to get excited and run up the line and miss lots of cover. Practice working every bit of cover, not just the bits with very easy access.  If he does flush a bird blow that stop whistle like your life depends on it and if he doesn't stop be on him like a shot. Letting him chase a flushed bird is one of the quickest ways to knacker a dog.  

If you want to use him for picking up I would never go dogging in.  You have spent all this time getting him to trust you that if you send him back there will be something there to retrieve. Now you are going to put him cover where there might not be anything and if he does find a bird he isn't allowed to bring it back.  The dog will soon loose trust in you if you spend an hour encouraging him to find something that isn't there. 

I could go on and on but got to go training... 

 

[ips]

Nicko

My only interest is beating which she has had one season of, also had her pegged whilst I shot a few drives. Using her for walked up is not on the cards but never say never. Good info thanks.

FYI

She is steady as a rock to dummies and was pretty steady in confines of wood but I recently discovered that she is not reliably steady if she flushes in open land hence I reckon as you say dogging in should be beneficial. sometimes she will stop to flush and break away with a "gone now" command but this is far from reliable so I have her trailing a five metre lead. 

 

[Nicko]

Nicko

My only interest is beating which she has had one season of, also had her pegged whilst I shot a few drives. Using her for walked up is not on the cards but never say never. Good info thanks.

FYI

She is steady as a rock to dummies and was pretty steady in confines of wood but I recently discovered that she is not reliably steady if she flushes in open land hence I reckon as you say dogging in should be beneficial. sometimes she will stop to flush and break away with a "gone now" command but this is far from reliable so I have her trailing a five metre lead. 

Without knowing the full details of you and the dog I would hazard a guess that this is your first dog and despite you wanting to use it for beating you have thrown it a million retrieves and spent a lot of time practicing retrieving.  What happens is the dog gets fixated on retrieving and when it flushes a bird in the open it uses its natural cocker hunting instinct combined with the need to retrieve to get the bird at all costs.  That means chasing it across the field until it either catches it or it flies off. 

This is less pronounced in the woods because the dog looses sight of the bird very quickly and looses interest. 

Whilst the dog might be steady to you throwing a dummy because it's already sitting doesn't mean "it's steady".  Your stop whistle has to be absolutely bomb proof and a good way to check is send the dog for a marked retrieve and blow the stop whistle when the dog is 5 feet away from the dummy.  If you can't stop the dog EVERY time then you need to practice till it does.  

Once you have the stop whistle nailed get the dog quartering and blow the whistle, the minute the dog stops throw the dummy in front of it and then pick it up yourself.  Then continue quartering.  You build this routine up to the point where you don't need the stop whistle and the moment the dog sees the dummy is thrown it sits. 

That is a very short version of how it works but there are lots of variables and without knowing the dog and seeing it work it's almost impossible to say for certain.  

 

[ips]

nicko

your bang on mate. First dog started off just training for dummy work for fun then long story short ended up beating and now dogging in. I can throw dummy from anywhere even if I am quartering her and she will sit. Makes sense what you say about the wood and why she chased in open land. Your good mate ?

recently I have been throwing dummies then getting her to break away and hunt in opposite direction so been trying to replicate that whilst dogging in. Made the mistake this evening of letting her trail the five metre lead and quartering her in tall ish grass field she pulled out on scent flushed four birds (in right direction back to release pen) and chased, ignored stop whistle which is usually very reliable, I can stop her mid retrieve on a dummy (but I have confess once she has stopped I send her out for the retrieve) everything going very well apart from the chase in open land.

 

[ips]

nicko

see my recent vid on beating thread, going off what you say above this should be something like correct, however sometimes I let her retrieve the dummy after another hunt.

what I struggle understanding is were is the reward for not chasing (in her mind) if she doesn't get the retrieve. Is it being released to hunt again. ??

 

[Nicko]

nicko

see my recent vid on beating thread, going off what you say above this should be something like correct, however sometimes I let her retrieve the dummy after another hunt.

what I struggle understanding is were is the reward for not chasing (in her mind) if she doesn't get the retrieve. Is it being released to hunt again. ??

I will have a look at the beating thread when I get 5 mins.  There doesn't  have to be a reward for the stop whistle apart from some praise for getting it right.  A good girl should be sufficient.  You reward them when they are young and learning but by the time you are flushing live birds it should be bomb proof.  If you blow that whistle the dog should stop no matter where you are or what the dog is doing. 

If you plan on using the dog for beating the dog will be expected to work all day and listen to every command and obey it, for nothing more than the fun of it and the praise you give it when it gets it right. 

 

[ips]

nick

I didn't look on it like that, I assumed the dog would either do things because if it does there is a reward or if it doesn't there are repercussions , regardless of age. !!!

 

[Nicko]

I have sent you an email with a bit more detail buddy.  

 

[ips]

got it, cheers pal ?