working with multiple dummies

[Wonko the Sane]

I do it most days !

I don't even want to talk about it

ips - it seems that most of the folks here are suggesting that you have to be smarter than the dog

 

[ips]

You can't really over do it so don't worry she can never anticipate what distance your going to drop her at if you mix it up. Enjoy your dog if your not worried about the odd run in enjoy playing with her that my friend is entirely your choice. Also when you drop her with the dummy a few yards out throw another but make her return with the one in her mouth before you send for the second dummy. Little steps and when it don't go to plan come back a step, and don't over do it now that it's getting warm

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once again a sincere thanks.

I am not worried about the odd run in I don't need or strive perfection she is predominantly a pet and as I say ball play is now firmly part of her life and she does know the difference between work and play but occasionally forgets

just to clarify one point. When I drop her and throw another does it matter what direction I throw it ??

I don't even want to talk about it

ips - it seems that most of the folks here are suggesting that you have to be smarter than the dog

charlie

I can assure you "eze" is smarter than me

 

[Salopian]

I think most dogs actually indulge us, and allow us to 'train' them to the level we are competent with. :lol:

 

[Gavin]

Not one bit. For the first few time you can walk to her but don't take the dummy from her, throw the second dummy, enforce the drop if need be, walk back away from her call her in accept the delivery then send for other dummy

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[ips]

ha, I am sure that is absolutely correct, eze probably thinks "listen pal it ain't no use you trying to get me to do ******* cos you don't know yourself

if your correct salopian then eze / me are possibly as good as were going to be (for now at least) BUT we got through a season beating unscathed and invited back plus I can walk / hunt her off lead anywere without fear of her beggering off, plus we can both have fun in the field with dummies and balls and at least look something like we know what were doing. Maybe I expect too much, not from her because she is fabulous but from me

 

[ips]

Not one bit. For the first few time you can walk to her but don't take the dummy from her, throw the second dummy, enforce the drop if need be, walk back away from her call her in accept the delivery then send for other dummy

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struggling. Can drop her no prob and she holds the dummy until I throw the second then drops dummy and gets in the starting blocks eager and I mean eager to get to the second. I tried it twice and tried to encourage her to deliver the first but both occasions she managed to get past me for the second one. Um, will try again tonight.

 

[Gavin]

Drop her walk to her don't take the dummy from her put lead on if need be throw other dummy, step back only as much as the lead will allow (if not using the lead a yard will do) and recall her lots of encouragement and praise. You will get there just don't expect it all in the one session

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[ips]

ok will report back ?

cheers

 

[Brand New]

At least you are having fun mate. If beating with Eze is all you are going to do then you wont have any problems with the things you have taught her. With the retrieving work you have done she will be able to be directed to a fallen bird and bring it to hand.

   I like total steadiness because my dogs pick up on a large commercial shoot and they are not allowed to retrieve anything but runners until the end of a drive even if 50 birds have fallen around them. When a runner is down I need to be able to send one dog whilst the other sits and waits in case needed to be sent for another.

  I appreciate the time and effort you have put into training Eze,also I have seen how far you have come on in such a short space of time. Highly commendable.

  Think you are a shooter first and a dog handler second. With me its the other way round. Hope you can give me lots of shooting advice. 

 

[ips]

brand new

first off sincere thanks for your kind words, you know my story and how confusing I have found it at times.

your bang on I don't really see me ever picking up and apart from anything else I haven't the skill to do a commercial shoot as you do, but beeting I enjoy and we have proved we can get through it reasonably unscathed. I have often wondered ( in fact you may remember I mentioned it once before) if my training structure should be on other things as I seem to concentrate mainly on steady retrieves.

this is probably an ideal time to ask the question..... If one was only ever going to go beeting then (a) how much training on retrieving dummies is really necessary (b) what key points would be considered essential.

 

[ips]

ps

I am in awe of handlers such as you who can have not one but two dogs steady in a commercial environment send one and keep one sat hup. I can only imagine the work and dedication required ?

 

[Brand New]

Many beating dogs do not retrieve. Some are not even encouraged to retrieve. Nice if they can do so when required. Most beating dogs just run riot until the end of the drive. But its really great when yours sit waiting for instructions before crossing the river and climbing the steep bank,working the brambles and then returning the bird to hand.

  A beating dog may never have to retrieve,some are never trained to do so. Your Eze has been trained to retrieve,has been trained to the whistle and is therefore a better than average beaters dog. More so she is a Gundog,   

 

[ips]

cheers

my outlook has always been to maintain a degree of steadiness (she happily sits at the edge of the woods before a drive waiting for me to instruct "get on") but I am aware she isn't reliably steady in the presence of temptation. I imagine she would retrieve however we haven't had the opportunity. My first season taught me that in my inexperienced view the things i need to work on are a "more" reliable stop and recall, both are good but again temptation is always there. I am wondering if i should accept what i have regards the steadiness, retrieve, delivery and work solely on stop and recall ??

she works well in cover and rarely pulls out but i would probably like her to hunt closer like Davids vid on vid thread i was impressed by that.

any thoughts ??

 

[ips]

Drop her walk to her don't take the dummy from her put lead on if need be throw other dummy, step back only as much as the lead will allow (if not using the lead a yard will do) and recall her lots of encouragement and praise. You will get there just don't expect it all in the one session

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gavin

it worked ? (sort of) stopped her three yards she sat and held dummy I walked to her threw other dummy took it from her and sent her for tuther. Oops I forgot the recall ? oh well will have another go later ?

 

[Gavin]

15 minutes twice a day will work wonders. Keep at it best of luck

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[ips]

this is going really well Gavin and I can now see the benefits. She sits to whistle quite well but not as instant as I would like. The fact that she already has a dummy in her mouth seems to make her more steady on the second one she sits very calmly. She is tentative on the recall though as in very slow walk because presumably she is working out what's going on with this new exercise ? quite impressed with this it has been most helpful ? I know I don't want to rush things but once she is stopping instantly and recalling well what is the next step ??

ps

will try to get a vid later

 

[Gavin]

When you happy with how she is doing. Sit her in front of you step back 5 yards throw one dummy left of her and one dummy to her right. And send for one after the other, when she delivers the first bring her back to the same spot she started 5 yards in front of you. Or when you send for the first you walk 5 yards forward. When she has this down increase the distance then move to 3 dummies left right and behind her.

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[ips]

gavin

update, your stop during retrieve is coming on very well however I am not happy with the stop as its a tentative slow down rather than an immediate stop. Any tips on how to improve the stop ??

 

[Gavin]

Yeah just improve your stop whistle by insisting on immediate drop every time you use it you can start by on a lead walking to heel, but insist it's instant before you move on. You will quickly learn that it's all about consistency with dogs as in if you want an instant drop never accept anything butt. Work on the drop with out the dummies for now as u may need to scold the dog (using voice ) no need for her to associate the scolding with retrieving

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[ips]

thanks Gavin. Her stops at heel are very good as are her stops if she is hunting or just pulling out a bit BUT stops to or from a retrieve are not !!