Enhancing the England Team selection procedure

[K80 Stu]

Now I've not posted on here before, but as someone that is planning to attend selection shoots for the sporting team this year, I have to say that I agree in having the team picked from the best options available - much the same as is done in other sports (albeit on judged performance in rugby, fagball etc), but why not increase that pool of shooters to get the best team that can be chosen? 

However I think there may be milage in looking at the national rankings, individual averages, past team performances, and also increasing the number of shoots designated as selection shoots. The latter point would probably encourage more people to attend if they didn't have to travel to the other side of the country to do a 100 bird event. I agree that there has to be a certain amount of personal sacrifice to try out and shoot for your country, but shouldn't the governing body be looking at ways to make it easier for people to try out? I'm not talking about making the shoots or the level of performance required easier before anyone complains - I'm talking about making it more accessible. I personally think the system needs reviewing.

Whilst thats going on, I also think that overhauling our classification system to the US method would benefit selection - as well as being easier to track, manage and maintain, it is a fairer representation of the shooters ability on the whole - i.e. its much harder to sandbag - which would highlight those that are actually good, and not hiding in the lower classes to win £20 on a 100 bird shoot on a sunday morning.

Just my tuppence worth.

 

[bonzodogdoodaband]

Not a fan at all nick and im pretty sure ronnie will make it into the team this year with or without help and continue to improve through the ranks to the full team and beyond.  He has the dedication which a lot of people lack.

 

[Skeetfreak]

I doubt my point of view will be popular but.....

I would not be a fan of expanding the England team selection procedure (in any discipline). To my mind it should be for the very best shooters, who have put years of effort (or have raw talent) and dedication into the sport / discipline of their choice.

By "watering down" the system you take that away from those who dedicate this time and effort IMO.

Let me bumble on as i can.....

I began shooting around the mid 90's as many of you know who have read my posts on here before. I initially shot sporting / compact and  bit of FITASC and did OK on the country and National level shoots with a few class wins etc. Shooting some good scores and eventually ending up in A class. I tried a couple of times to obtain what i really wanted "My Badge / Cap"

I never made it.....

Switched to skeet and began a three year effort to make the team, falling well short in 2003, losing out in a shoot off in 2004, then finally making it in 2005!

That badge means a lot to me - i am still proud i made it into the team and got to shoot in a Home International. The sheer fact that only 10 people a year can achieve this makes it the real challenge. There are plenty of people who are regarded as really good shots who have yet to get "their badge" in many disciplines.

How can we possibly have some of the best shooters in the country not make the team but others who shoot worse get their badge?

Does not make sense to me. If you are falling short of a badge then to my mind you should do what is needed to get better and make the team. Everyone in the past has had too. By opening the teams up to classes you take away what those who have gone before achieved IMO.

See i said you wouldn't like it - .. 

 

[bonzodogdoodaband]

Agreed.

 

[Nicky T]

This suggestion isn't a replacement to the current selection process, it is an addition or stepping stone to encourage the less experienced to move up through the ranks. I completely agree that the highest prestige should be awarded to those who on make "THE" England team.

 

[bonzodogdoodaband]

They do gain experience as they move up through the classes already, this is where they learn how to cope with the different pressures placed on them whilst climbing the ladder.

  For example, if someone started shooting today and shot twice a week till they got in C class, then entered the various selection shoots and won their class, they would get an england badge within 7 months of starting, Albeit in their class. Would that be fair to the man who had tried for ten years or more and still not managed it.

 

[Mr Potter]

Sorry Nick but I'm with Brian on this (can't spell bonzodogdoodaband).  Smacks of the trendy type stuff like not having any losers so create enough classes so that everyone goes home with a medal.  I know plenty of people who shoot all the selection shoots, particularly in FITASC (and before the pedants start I mean International Sporting) in the knowledge they haven't a snowball in hell's chance of making the team.  They then usually shoot in the World and European championships as individuals with an even slimmer chance of silverware.  Why, because they love shooting and want (and can afford) to shoot the best targets alongside the very best shooters in the world.  The only competition they can't enter on this basis is the annual home international and to be honest I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

I honestly don't think they would be bothered if there were B, C & D class teams, in fact I think they would probably shun them, I know I would. 

If any cap, badge, blazer etc. went with these class teams, as above, if I'd shot an 89 in A class and missed the team by 1 point I'd be mighty pissed off to see a D class shooter with a 59 strutting his stuff in a team uniform.

The very very best wear the badge and the rest of us can, if we're young enough, try harder or for us of more advanced years applaud those that reach the top and bemoan the breaks we didn't get ;-)

Unless of course you have a class for Veterans - left handed but shoot off right shoulder - super heavyweight - vision correction required - non glove wearing - non smoking - miroku - eley.  As if there is I'm in, I must stand a better than 50% chance of making team reserve.

Mr Potter

 

[Nicky T]

No need to apologise Andy, just merely discussing a suggestion that's all. From a personal point of view there seems to be very little change in shooting in recent years and only a handful of people willing to get stuck in (the Lovatts are a good example) and make things change for the better. It's good for people to voice their opinions as that is what the forum is all about At the end if the day some shooters will always be content with what's on offer and others won't. Thankfully there are a mixture of opinions and thoughts on offer

 

[Skeetfreak]

This suggestion isn't a replacement to the current selection process, it is an addition or stepping stone to encourage the less experienced to move up through the ranks. I completely agree that the highest prestige should be awarded to those who on make "THE" England team.

While i see what you are getting at in terms of providing experience to up and coming shooters as they climb the ladder of classes. There is the facility to do this already though.

You have county team selection shoots and then the county team. This gives a scaled down version of the england procedure and the opportunity to "represent".

Then many counties operate "shooter of the year" which is a similar experience but competing over a full season.

You can then venture onto the "major" shoots and the education that comes with this.

Speak to MOST of the top shooters and they would advocate this route and serving a form of apprenticeship as you develop as a shooter. Especially the younger shots who of course also have the added bonus of competing for "Junior" honours while they cut their teeth. The recent success our shooters have been having on the world stage along with the strength over the years we have shown in nearly all of the home internationals.... i believe shows the system works and works well.

So we could argue that there is no need to provide extra experience and it is amazing how much that badge lifts you on the first day wearing it.

 

[Fuzrat]

For me its the best of the best, end of. I certainly wouldn't be interested in watching a league 2 football world cup. Selection shoots for me are just another registered shoot that I have a good chance of watching the top boys perform and hopefully learn something. Granted some will never get "that badge" due to lack of funds, dedication or even talent but thats just the way it is.

another thought for the mix, wouldn't England class caps promote even more of a sand storm? rather than try to better their class they want to stay down to get that cap?

 

[Will Hewland]

For me its the best of the best, end of. I certainly wouldn't be interested in watching a league 2 football world cup. Selection shoots for me are just another registered shoot that I have a good chance of watching the top boys perform and hopefully learn something. Granted some will never get "that badge" due to lack of funds, dedication or even talent but thats just the way it is.

another thought for the mix, wouldn't England class caps promote even more of a sand storm? rather than try to better their class they want to stay down to get that cap?

Totally agree Fuz. We keep score to see who among us is remarkable. Can't make a mockery of that.

When I was a kid I did Karting. The British team were a selected creme de la creme. Only about 6 in the team i think. The world championship was only open to the selected best of the best from each country. The British team members had a letter of permission from the RAC allowing their crash helmets to be painted in British racing green with Union Jacks on the side. We looked way up to these team members and aspired. Maybe this is why I think the way I do about top championships..