European Union

[wynno]

Really... what would be your guestimate ? 3 million , 3.1 million 3.5 million ? What do you base the bold underlined part of your statement on ?  Muslims in the UK are a very minority religious group the vast majority of which are hard working law abiding citizens... and yet we have to fear them and watch out for a dictatorship when they reach critical mass in twenty years!

Go back and look at your posts , there is only one keyboard warrior posting here.

I'd be more than happy to have a face to face  discussion with you..

My final word on the subject.

 

[Rosso]

 

[ExSCA]

To be fair.... I'm not sure I'd be running round using Bertelsmann Foundation polls as the basis for my PR...their history is fairly divisive already. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2308415.stm

 

[Bebo]

Quoting from an EU wide poll immediately next to an image with a Union Jack over it (indicating it applies to the UK rather than the whole EU) is also a bit dodgy.

 

[Hamster]

Now your figure for the estimate for the number of Muslim citizens present in the UK is wildly inaccurate at 5 million. The official government figure for all new foreign migrants to the UK between 2011 and 2015 is 565,000 more than sixty per cent of those came from EU countries... yet you have the Muslim population increase over that period at more than 2 million. So there must have been a huge return to the UK of native Muslim nationals.

I admit to having a special interest in this particular angle so apologies to those less interested but why as I keep saying are we collating millions of wildly different groups of people under such a banner in the first place ? I can just imagine the Western outcry if they (ME people as well as Indonesians and Indians)   routinely referred to Germans, English, American, Canadian, etc, etc, etc, by such a tenuous distinction of religious leanings as opposed to actual nationality ?!

What makes you think they are any more religious or devout than indigenous people here in Europe ? My guess is that of those 3-5 million a very significant portion simply don't identify their faith as the most important factor in their make up. It's politics of creating fear, look to the not too distant past for other horrific examples. 

 

[Bebo]

Extreme god-botherers of all varieties are the problem.  The extreme right wing Christians in the US are a problem and their involvement in the State is increasing.  The 1st Amendment to the US Constitution made it clear that State and Religion should be separate, it was only in the 20th Century that 'In God We Trust' became the US motto and that the words 'under God' were introduced into their pledge of allegiance.  The divide is definitely weakening.

As far as I'm concerned religion (of all brands) is like a tinky-winky.  I have no problem with you having one, I have no problem with you being proud of it, but I really don't want it waved in my face.

PS I didn't use the word tinky-winky, but I am in admiration of the auto-correct.

 

[Les53]

Personally I don't give a monkeys about a persons religion or race or nationality. Yes I've heard it said that most terrorists are Muslims, however most Muslims are not terrorists! Anyway, I don't agree with mass immigration from ANYWHERE!!! Recent events have shown that open boarders make things easy for terrorists and other non desirables. As for the EU, well I voted for the Common Market as it used to be called, I didn't want our laws to be made or overruled in bloody Belgium or anywhere else for that matter!!!!

 

[Mike L]

Sigh ... Show me where I have said that. If I had been quoting you I would have put that in with the appropriate grammatical  marking.

"and yet we have to fear them and watch out for a dictatorship when they reach critical mass in twenty years!" relates to a post by another contributor... but is pertinent to the debate.

You don't seem to understand either that sometimes on a thread when you make two posts in quick succession they are displayed together, don't ask me why I don't know.

"Go back and look at your posts , there is only one keyboard warrior posting here." is a reply to another contributor not you. Yet you have quoted it in your reply this gives the impression it was a reply to you... note to user learn how to use the quote function and delete as appropriate.

Now your figure for the estimate for the number of Muslim citizens present in the UK is wildly inaccurate at 5 million. The official government figure for all new foreign migrants to the UK between 2011 and 2015 is 565,000 more than sixty per cent of those came from EU countries... yet you have the Muslim population increase over that period at more than 2 million. So there must have been a huge return to the UK of native Muslim nationals.

Anyway never mind the Muslims what about the "Roma Gypsy crisis " sommat's gotta be done abat that!

sigh, like I stated before mine was an opinion, you seem to think your opinion is fact, anyway you are coming across as a sanctimonious aresehole, so like another member has stated, feel free to carry on this chat in person, not online.

 

[ExSCA]

Seriously - is everyone a bit hungry or something - it's making you all grumpy - lets have another interlude to cheer everyone up:

 

[Wonko the Sane]

This is all really fascinating.  I find that I agree with Hamster and would add that, as some have sorta noted, the problems you are discussing are world wide.  GB has most def contributed to its current problems for over a few hundred yrs.  The US hasn't had quite so long to screw things up but it has done a great deal in an attempt to catch up.  Whatever the root causes may be they've been running and augmented for far too long to see any practical solution now.  The disasters, economic and social, the talking heads refer to are already here and we are all well into them.  A multitude of interactive problems cannot be solved by cutting off a single one of them and to attack the entirety is beyond the will of any political entity.  

Withdrawing from the EU will solve nothing.  GB politicians, EU politicians, US politicians - - - none have the common good on their list of things to do.  So EU or not, nothing is gonna change and you are living in a fantasy land if you think it will.

JMO of course

 

[Hamster]

Seriously - is everyone a bit hungry or something - it's making you all grumpy - lets have another interlude to cheer everyone up:

Here here, why can't people argue and reason without resorting to insults, it is a very touchy subject and needs careful handling. Opinions are just that, facts are there if you look for them, it just sometimes needs a truly open mind to separate the wheat from the chaff.  

 

[Rosso]

 

[Nimbusgb]

I fear that come the referendum the average British voter will put his mark in the 'leave' box on the strength of the UK becoming a manufacturing nation at the head of some new empire. Sadly it will be the final death knell of a once great nation that will finally sink in to obscurity. The 'out' voters will be hanging on to the casket as it is lowered into the ground singing 'Rule Britannia' and blaming everyone but themselves.

If nothing else once out there will be *nothing* to stop the French, Germans and Greeks from allowing, if not assisting, every migrant on the face of the planet to jump in a boat across the channel. We can barely maintain an effective police force, we have aircraft carriers with no aircraft, subs potentially without missiles and an Army with little or no staff or weaponry. We don't have the tax base to build hospitals let alone a border force capable of stopping a mass influx. Sure we can stop their benefits but just wait till every street corner has a migrant camped on it! 

The out campaign is being driven by business that feels it is restrained by EU imposed labour laws and silly things like 'human rights'. Business wants to be able to make you work 60 hours a week for minimum wage.

The good news for us older people reliant on income from interest will be that inflation goes through the roof as the cost of manufactured and/or imported goods escalates. 

just my $0.02 worth and I may be wrong .......... but I don't think so.

 

[Les53]

So.....on that cheerful note.........

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Here here, why can't people argue and reason without resorting to insults, it is a very touchy subject and needs careful handling. Opinions are just that, facts are there if you look for them, it just sometimes needs a truly open mind to separate the wheat from the chaff.  

Of course that presumes that you have access to the "wheat".  Journalists yap incessantly about how vital they are to society but they have proven, here at any rate, that they are operating within a deluded paradigm that only presents the "truth" of whichever faction they support.  Actual objective reporting certainly is not alive and well if in fact it ever was.

"The out campaign is being driven by business that feels it is restrained by EU imposed labour laws and silly things like 'human rights'. Business wants to be able to make you work 60 hours a week for minimum wage."

Which is the history of business in the UK since the industrial revolution.  OK - it pre-dates that but may well have set a standard for the rest of the world to eagerly follow.  So........ not much of a surprise there 

JMO of course

 

[Rosso]

 

[jwpzx9r]

The Daily Mail says all you need to know about this issue its not about the UK its about ENGLAND. So lets not worry about what's best for the United Kingdom, lets worry about what's best for ENGLAND.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

the latest one,,,,,,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35488674?SThisFB

 

[Rosso]

The Daily Mail says all you need to know about this issue its not about the UK its about ENGLAND. So lets not worry about what's best for the United Kingdom, lets worry about what's best for ENGLAND.

You have The Scottish parliament with 50 odd MPs voting on English issues with a leader who is not an MP who thinks its so great to have unlimited refugees  that she is going to have 4 herself NOT. 

You have the welsh parliament who are similar to the Scotts. Both heavily subsidized by the power house England and more importantly London.

England is what keeps the UK afloat. Lets have a referendum on kicking Scotland out at the same time as leaving the EU out see how they like it. 

 

[shootinguru]

I bet that fecking parrot is racist too?