First Gun: Buy at the shooting show, or at local gunshop?

[Westward]

Okay, as to the wife thing, there's no need to tell porkies. Just say that yes it is a lot of money but  it was a storming deal and too good to pass on. If you need a killer line tell her it'll last a lifetime and you'll never need to upgrade it. (Think - "Of course I love you, we'll always be together")

It's all about psycholomogy...

 

[Les53]

If you buy the likes of a second hand Miroku/Browning or Beretta and shoot it for a few years, the chances are that you will not lose any, or not much money on it. I have known guys who have bought such guns and sold them after a few years at a small profit, it can happen. If you just buy a cheap gun, the chances are that you may have trouble shifting it, or shifting it for a decent price, when you decide to trade up, which you will do eventually.

 

[Les53]

Okay, as to the wife thing, there's no need to tell porkies. Just say that yes it is a lot of money but  it was a storming deal and too good to pass on. If you need a killer line tell her it'll last a lifetime and you'll never need to upgrade it. (Think - "Of course I love you, we'll always be together")

It's all about psycholomogy...

I would NEVER get that sort of thing past my misses!!!! She would know I was up to something straight away, I would be dead in the water! :suicide:

 

[Will Hewland]

Assuming that this is a question from a newbie, I would say that getting a good person to judge decent fit is equally possible at a fair as anywhere. The stall holders ARE gunshops surely? OK, you can't shoot it, but there aren't many surprises there if the fit is about right. I would say have a look at a fair, but (as with any shop) make sure there is a good explanation from the sales person as to why it fits you. Do some homework and bingle gun fit. See the basics on you tube to get a grasp of what it involves first.

 

[P1Fanatic]

I personally would prefer to be less pressured and spend my time looking for a good gun at local dealers rather than be pushed into buying something on the spot.

That said who am I to preach? I bought a right handed 682 privately for my first gun (it was a bargain) but I shoot left handed . (as left eye dominant). But I still shot a few rounds with it before I bought it. As much as measuring etc is important you really need to shoot it and feel comfortable with it in your shoulder. I tried a few Brownings and they just felt boxy and awkward to me.

 

[Will Hewland]

I personally would prefer to be less pressured and spend my time looking for a good gun at local dealers rather than be pushed into buying something on the spot.

That said who am I to preach? I bought a right handed 682 privately for my first gun (it was a bargain) but I shoot left handed . (as left eye dominant). But I still shot a few rounds with it before I bought it. As much as measuring etc is important you really need to shoot it and feel comfortable with it in your shoulder. I tried a few Brownings and they just felt boxy and awkward to me.

The reason I specified 'newbie' is because they don't really know what is right for them (I didn't when I bought my first gun). So judging for yourself without experienced advice at an early stage perhaps won't get the right result..

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Okay, as to the wife thing, there's no need to tell porkies. Just say that yes it is a lot of money but  it was a storming deal and too good to pass on. If you need a killer line tell her it'll last a lifetime and you'll never need to upgrade it. (Think - "Of course I love you, we'll always be together")

It's all about psycholomogy...

L. O. L.

 

[Les53]

L. O. L.

I guessed you would like that Nic!!!! :girlwacko:

 

[Jonny English]

There are more things than budget you also need to consider, barrel length can be crucial, 30's are one of the best alround lengths.

You'll not go wrong with browning/miroku beretta in a 30'' multichoke second hand. If going with miroku try to find an MK variant rther than the thousand series as they are newer, same with Browning 525 if you can as opposed to an older 425 or 325. Berettas silver pigeons are fairly new. It can be worth checkung serial numbers with the uk suppliers on all guns, there have been occasions of guns being heavily modified ie barrels chopped off and just sold on, check the original spec to its current state.

 

[VicW]

I think another consideration when buying from a show/fair is the case where you buy from a dealer who is at the other end of the country and you have a problem with the gun.

Had you bought locally,assuming that you have a reputable dealer near by,you could take it back and discuss the problem.

I think you should  deal with your nearest,recommended,gunshop where you can get some after sales service.

If it's your first gun don't buy new,let someone else take the initial hit.I reckon you can get a good gun for your money. I know of an immaculate Miroku 3800 Trap gun going for £700.

Vic 

 

[ehb102]

I had to buy a gun where nothing came even close to fitting me. It was very frustrating. I'd go into a gun shop, spend lots of time picking up and holding guns, over and over again whilst people with varying degrees of expertise advised me. It's like a spiral: I went around many shops and picked up a lot of guns and eventually found that the opinions of sales people were starting to align. I had some very good people help me who got me to pick up gun after gun after gun, swapping them in and out until I got tired. They could then see what I was doing, what fitted me. I was initially looking at a DT10 but ended up with a Browning 425 for a third of the price. It suits me, but I didn't realise how much until I had picked up all these other guns. I went via the 525, which I compared directly against the 425 whilst shooting. The 425 had a slightly nicer balance to it,  People who knew more than me said so, and I could just glimpse that by the end. Now it's had  two inches taken off the stock and the toe shaped for me and it fits. So what I learned is that it's how it feels as you pick it up and wave it around that counts. The actual fit will come later. If it feels good before it's fitted it will feel better after. I think I held every gun in the Beretta range up to the DT11, but the Browning felt more right to me. It was a toss up between the 425 and the 525, both were a similar price, just the 425 was a more costly model when it was sold (a Grade V?) and I was told it was nicer wood as well. I was also told that it was down to me and that I wouldn't go wrong either way. 

So for you, establish the model you want first. Go in to dealers and ask them what they think will suit you. Do that in multiple places. Eventually you should get consistency, or make up your own mind. Then find a gun in that model with the right barrel length that you like the feel of and borrow it to shoot. Now you know model and variant number, buy one of those you can afford, testing it first.

If I had stuck with wanting a DT10 I would have bought one privately, but as it was I got mine from a gun shop and it came in budget. I couldn't have got a DT10 from a gun shop, the commission meant the price was too high. 

 

[ehb102]

 as they are newer, same with Browning 525 if you can as opposed to an older 425 or 325.  

I don't think that newer is necessarily better. I withstood a lecture on the changes between those models and the opinion of the (knowledgeable and respected) speaker was that the earlier model was more desirable. Didn't mention the 325 though. In fact, I was advised to look for an older gun as they are "better" in some ways. 

 

[Les53]

I don't think that newer is necessarily better. I withstood a lecture on the changes between those models and the opinion of the (knowledgeable and respected) speaker was that the earlier model was more desirable. Didn't mention the 325 though. In fact, I was advised to look for an older gun as they are "better" in some ways. 

I've heard this before! Some say that the Mirook 3800 is better than the MK38, but having owned a few of each I have to say that I really cannot see anything really different, same goes for the Brownings. OK the 3800 has chopper lump barrels and the MK38 has mono block, but beyond that I have never known what is different, certainly I have never thought that they handled in different ways! I no longer have the MK38's but I do still have a 3800 that I bought new in 1991. :biggrin:

 

[scotty38]

People who knew more than me said so, and I could just glimpse that by the end. Now it's had  two inches taken off the stock and the toe shaped for me and it fits. So what I learned is that it's how it feels as you pick it up and wave it around that counts. The actual fit will come later. If it feels good before it's fitted it will feel better after. I think I held every gun in the Beretta range up to the DT11, but the Browning felt more right to me. It was a toss up between the 425 and the 525, both were a similar price, just the 425 was a more costly model when it was sold (a Grade V?) and I was told it was nicer wood as well. I was also told that it was down to me and that I wouldn't go wrong either way. 

It might be me but I'm struggling to understand how you chose between a DT10 and a 425 when it needed 2" off the stock?

 

[Jonny English]

I wasn't thinking so much along the lines of which was better or not mechanically, but the OP should have an understanding of which are newer or older models for when coming up against dealers looking to shift any old tat to an unsuspecting customer. Its normally just human nature to want as new or as good condition as possible for your money!

 

[ehb102]

It might be me but I'm struggling to understand how you chose between a DT10 and a 425 when it needed 2" off the stock?

Every gun I picked up needed loads off the stock. I've got a 13" stock now. I had to buy a gun without ever picking up one with a stock that short. So every gun was at least 1.5" too long, some 2" and I learned to judge the difference simply from what it felt like in my hands and on my shoulder. The toes were all pointing in the wrong direction for me as well which just made it even harder. 

It wasn't a direct choice. I liked shooting with the borrowed DT10 better than any other Beretta I borrowed (Onyx, Silver Pigeons, Es, Essential) or held (all of them). so I turned up at gun shops saying "I want a gun and I like the DT10". Someone did explain to me why I liked them, something to do with weight distribution IIRC, but I was open to the opinion of the professionals. They got me to try lots of guns and that was when I started to feel how different the 525 felt. It felt much more right than any Beretta. I'd liked the 425 as the best gun out of one shop's stock, and someone who had seen it suggested I compare it directly against the 525 I had also liked. 

It's not like someone ever said: "Here, try this DT10 with a short stock and a nice shaped toe and compare it against this 425 which will also fit you". 

 

[ianmaney]

Hi Andy, I'm a bit biased on this one, I got my first gun, a Browning Ultra XS from one of the shows in 2011 and was ripped off by a very well known 'large' gun store.

Buy from a proper gun smith, get it fitted and spend what it costs, you won't regret it later on.

This is what I did with my current gun and I'm still in love with it 12 months on, depending on where you are in the country (sorry if you already said, I haven't read this whole thread) but my wife and I use Brett at Brierley Guns (West Midlands) but we also bought my wife's Beretta from Neville at Essex Guns, both top blokes with outstanding service, also and has already been said, go and see Phill Coley, excellent choice and will definitely steer you in the right direction.

All the best, Ian

We're always in the sh*t it's just the depth that differs!

 

[scotty38]

Every gun I picked up needed loads off the stock. I've got a 13" stock now. I had to buy a gun without ever picking up one with a stock that short. So every gun was at least 1.5" too long, some 2" and I learned to judge the difference simply from what it felt like in my hands and on my shoulder. The toes were all pointing in the wrong direction for me as well which just made it even harder. 

It wasn't a direct choice. I liked shooting with the borrowed DT10 better than any other Beretta I borrowed (Onyx, Silver Pigeons, Es, Essential) or held (all of them). so I turned up at gun shops saying "I want a gun and I like the DT10". Someone did explain to me why I liked them, something to do with weight distribution IIRC, but I was open to the opinion of the professionals. They got me to try lots of guns and that was when I started to feel how different the 525 felt. It felt much more right than any Beretta. I'd liked the 425 as the best gun out of one shop's stock, and someone who had seen it suggested I compare it directly against the 525 I had also liked. 

It's not like someone ever said: "Here, try this DT10 with a short stock and a nice shaped toe and compare it against this 425 which will also fit you". 

Thanks. What I was trying to say (perhaps badly) was that I just didn't understand how you could feel one gun was better than another when they were all so far away from fitting you. I suppose the best analogy I can think of is comparing size 12 shoes when you only normally take a size 7.....

 

[ehb102]

Thanks. What I was trying to say (perhaps badly) was that I just didn't understand how you could feel one gun was better than another when they were all so far away from fitting you. I suppose the best analogy I can think of is comparing size 12 shoes when you only normally take a size 7.....

So what do you do if there are only size 12 shoes available and you've never had a pair of shoes that fit you? You compare one ill-fitting shoe against another and make the best judgement you can with what is available to you. You compare common parameters and adjustability. Weight and width for example. 

If anyone knows a shop anywhere with guns with short stocks and shaped toes suitable for women to try I'm sure the girls at the Chelsea Bun club would love to know about it. 

 

[AndyH]

So... after a week of hell at work, working evenings and just about meeting a deadline for Friday lunch, I decided to take the afternoon off and go to Ian Coley's in the spirit of supporting my local dealer, and getting some impartial advice. I met with a couple of guys from the shop, and an instructor there who I know a little bit (had some lessons with him last year) and I took a couple of guns out. The first was a Browning 525 second hand - the other was a new Miroku MK70 Sporter.

You might be able to guess the rest.

After not being able to separate the two guns, I got the Miroku. It was impulsive and I'll be paying for it by drinking fewer beers this year, but I do love it and it's all mine. Now I just have to learn how to hit clays with it - but that's the fun part right?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Andy