fixed choke trap gun

[Bebo]

"... not the best idea unless you're Richard Faulds or George Digweed"

Surely the idea is to shoot as well as these Gentlemen?

But in reality how many of us ever will?  My nephew used to say something to my dad when he overdid it that is apt - "Grandad, know your limitations."

 

[ips]

I have a Miroku  mk38 trap 3/4 and full...shoot it as well as anything else at sporting.

Fiochhi F3 piston wad are the way to go...gaurantee if you try them you won't go back

?

so what's the crack with piston wad ??

 

[MJJ]

so what's the crack with piston wad ??

No shoulders to the cup, like a standard plastic wad. Just a bowl shape. This means less plastic used, which means more profit as they charge the same. 

 

[Hamster]

"... not the best idea unless you're Richard Faulds or George Digweed"

Surely the idea is to shoot as well as these Gentlemen?

I have never shot any gun in my collection as well as I used to shoot my MK38 Trap choked Full & Exta Full , 0.040" & 0.045" inch.

Interestingly , have you ever compared the pattern at 10 yards of Cylinder & Exta Full of  a plastic wadded cartridge?

Even those gents will have missed clays for no other reason than being over choked. 

I would be happy to wait the outcome of such a test (might even have a crack at it myself) and I bet there will be several inches worth of difference. 

Tight chokes are the way to go the better you get but they will cost you more close ones than they will gain distant ones while you're learning. 

 

[ips]

like bebo says many targets these days are nowt like any bird and like john says you ain't taking anything of your barrell on a game day. I have no interest in comps I have no interest in shooting stupid targets I am only interested in practicing on targets at a distance and a flight path that I will encounter on a pheasant, partridge, pigeon, rook day. I don't like shooting anything too close so on that basis I cant see why the trap gun with a suitable cartridge wont work !!!

 

[jwpzx9r]

john

you have a game background would you shoot 3/4 - full at "normal" game distance?

I used a std dt10 once and had my best day to date and they were not high birds, but they were not pillow cases ?

This is a strange one Ian. First off I am not a great game shot but at one time it was all the shooting I did. For me with game shooting I really wanted to shoot the bird and kill it using as few pellets as was humane so to be fair a more open choke made sense. Also close birds were always ignored but one has to remember if you are using number 5 shot there are fewer pellets and a bird at 35 to 45 m is fair game even with a tight choke IMO.

To the question you originally posed I cannot think of any reason at all why you should be able to break more targets with an open choke over a tight one if you are on target in the first place. Mr Digweed misses targets ... but he does not cuss himself with the words "if only I had used a different choke in the sentence" He rightly recognises that the best way to break the target is to centre it and hit it with as many pellets as is possible. Choke changing, in my opinion, is for shooters who do not have faith in their ability to centre the target... they are hedging their bets and hoping a wider shot pattern will deliver a hit ... neglecting to remember that the very act of opening the choke makes shot density on the periphery of the pattern very weak. That  final sentence is not one derived from a great experience of ESP shooting it is simply common sense. On final comment from me. Again only my opinion to make a choke work properly I really think one has to be careful of the type of cartridge you use, I think many cartridges mask the effect of open chokes.

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

When I was starting out I was told "chokes give you inches, but you miss by feet". How true that is I don't know, but it feels about right to me.

Get out and shoot the gun at some esp and see how it goes. You'll probably surprise yourself. Take a box of pistonwad shells (Hull Pro Piston or Fiocchi F3 Blues) for the close up stuff.

If you feel you want to get more competitive then look at getting a second gun, or maybe a second set of barrels for your DT?

 

[jwpzx9r]

Where have I ever said that I shoot game?  I don't, I shoot English Sporting, which as I said above, no longer just tries to replicate what game birds (or rabbits) do.

Sorry Bebo I never meant to say you did that, but my reference to 10m targets you mentioned was meant to highlight that ESP is supposed to simulate, as you have said , game shooting scenarios ... where do you get a 10m target on a game shoot ? Close in ESP targets are just the same as ridiculously distant targets in ESP they are there to test the shooter you don't really want to do that in a game shooting situation... IMO.

 

[schmokinn]

?

so what's the crack with piston wad ??

No shot cup as such allows a little more spread to the pattern but still good kills.

They pattern well in both my mk38 and Perazzi.

.Best value performance cartridge in my opinion at 200 a thou it maybe a bit less oop north

8.5 italian which equates to 7.752463 English or summat.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Just bite the bullet and buy a second set of barrels for the EELL

Simples

DT

 

[ChrisPackham]

Unless you are on the fringes of winning money at ESP I wouldn't worry about it and as for game, anyone shooting anything at 10 yards regardless of choke won't be popular. 

Im entirely convinced that cartridge and choke optimisation is more important than choke itself having spent ages driving myself nuts with this..

However, I wouldn't want to take a trap gun on a walked up day or try to shoot good partridge or grouse with it.  I'd be inclined to find a game gun you like and stick with that.  I shot a friends 20 bore CG Maxim last week and really liked that (even if the barrels have a design fault)

 

[ips]

Well, I have just had the 687 out with a view to convincing myself its on a one way trip to rfd. Whilst dry mounting I realised that "obviously" I tend to adopt a trappie square ish on stance as I left foot 3min past the hour right foot 12 min past the hour and the comb is way way to low, however if i adopt a more side on stance with a Percy stanbury right foot tippy toe then all of a sudden comb height alters (well it doesn't but the mount gives the effect of doing so) in all my years I have never noticed this even though I used to shoot dtl with this side on stance. Um, me thinks I need another go with the 687 and a tippy toe stance before making any rash decisions. I do love the 687 its very pretty .

Anyone else noticed how stance effects perceived comb height. ??

 

[ChrisPackham]

Makes a massive diffference for me.  Too much time spent rifle shooting makes me feel Like my shotguns don't fit and I shoot up the left of everything until I remember..

 

[Bebo]

Not noticed that, but if you're going side on I'd suggest making sure you are pointed at the kill zone on any big crossing targets.  If you have to rotate beyond your comfort zone it can do all sort of things.  For a right hander on r-l crossers you can end up slowing the gun as you run out of movement or over-rotating and dropping under the line.  For l-r you can end up pulling the gun away from your cheek. I say you can, I should say I can because those are all things I've managed to do.

 

[ips]

Not noticed that, but if you're going side on I'd suggest making sure you are pointed at the kill zone on any big crossing targets.  If you have to rotate beyond your comfort zone it can do all sort of things.  For a right hander on r-l crossers you can end up slowing the gun as you run out of movement or over-rotating and dropping under the line.  For l-r you can end up pulling the gun away from your cheek. I say you can, I should say I can because those are all things I've managed to do.

I am very flexible ?

 

[Bebo]

I am very flexible ?

TMI 

 

[westley]

Well, I have just had the 687 out with a view to convincing myself its on a one way trip to rfd. Whilst dry mounting I realised that "obviously" I tend to adopt a trappie square ish on stance as I left foot 3min past the hour right foot 12 min past the hour and the comb is way way to low, however if i adopt a more side on stance with a Percy stanbury right foot tippy toe then all of a sudden comb height alters (well it doesn't but the mount gives the effect of doing so) in all my years I have never noticed this even though I used to shoot dtl with this side on stance. Um, me thinks I need another go with the 687 and a tippy toe stance before making any rash decisions. I do love the 687 its very pretty .

Anyone else noticed how stance effects perceived comb height. ??

I DO believe that we have had this conversation already. It took place just after you got the gun and we were on the car park of a local well known shooting ground. I managed to persuade you to alter your stance and keep your head still when mounting the gun. We then went on to do the 50 bird sporting shoot, of which, I seem to recall, you shot in the low 40's.  Yeah, I think I see what you mean about that gun, it just has to go........................the chances of ever doing 100 straight at sporting with it are pretty low really  !      

 

[ips]

oops, what can say other than you were right then. I tend to forget such things and naturally default to whatever I default too. This is why the likes of Mr salopian have very little hair left. ?

ps

did I really shoot low 40s ruddy ell thought I would have remembered that.

 

[westley]

oops, what can say other than you were right then. I tend to forget such things and naturally default to whatever I default too. This is why the likes of Mr salopian have very little hair left. ?

ps

did I really shoot low 40s ruddy ell thought I would have remembered that.

The eye and the ears may be cream crackered BUT, I still have some memory.........................er Dave  ?

 

[ips]

(?