Gil & Vicki

[timps]

Longmynd  you said:

" I don't look at the barrel at all now( although I am aware of them in the peripheral vision) but focus solely on the clay throughout the shot!"

Now, if you consider that this is Gil's method, please ask any Brit coach on how they train " visually normal shooters"! .I guess in the exact  same way!

My question to you is , if that's a normal way to shoot targets( eyes on the bird, gun in the peripheral vision) how Gil's method( the same) made a difference for a cross dominant like you???

Anyone saying that eye dominance in shooting is irrelevant ,for my, that's an impostor! 

How you establish the sight picture,gun- target,(lead)relationship, if you can't line up your gun .seen in the peripheral vision, with the pointing eye  b/c of cross eye dominance?

 The only way is to switch shoulders, which I don't thing you did.

If you answer to this question, I have no other questions for you.

Thank you!

Well I am certainly not going to try and explain Gil’s method as I have no idea what it involves and it is for him to do, but I did train my brain to switch dominance from left to right, so the statement that the only way is to switch shoulders is not strictly true.

I was involved in a very long thread on shotgunworld on the subject and have no intention of repeating it all here.

But you can read the entire thread, my very detailed thoughts and scientific research papers proving it can be done over there.

I have nothing to sell, like maybe some eye dominance correction tool (XDS),  I did not use Gil's method or any other coaches method so I am not plugging them, I am not even stating it is the best way to do it, just that brain training can be done for eye dominance.

As you say "if you come out publicly, better be ready  to be challenged, no matter what's your name or other considerations" and switching shoulders is not the only way, I proved that with research papers on Shotgunworld.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I spent one to one time with them both for a whole day. Very interesting. Videos and ideas ....very interesting.

Would do it again when they are next over.

You can teach an old dog new tricks :wink:

No idea who this new guy is though..?

 

[timps]

No idea who this new guy is though..?

http://www.shotguncoach.com/

http://xdsolution.com/

http://qwickresponse.com/

http://www.mazeclays.com/mazeclays

 

[** Pending Removal **]

That was not a request for reading material thanks Timps :wink: just that I have never heard of him.

 

[longmynd]

Hi Shotguncoach/Bill

Focusing solely on the clay is only a part of Gil’s method. Previously I’d been looking down the barrels (and had at one stage fitted a fluorescent sight) to take the shot, trying to gauge the lead from looking between the bead and the clay. I believe the eye dominance issue arises when the bead is ‘seen’ by the dominant eye in the sight picture instead of the ye aligned with the rib, hence I resorted to suing a lens spot to prevent this. Now that both eyes are focused on the clay, this isn’t an issue for me any more.

There is no ‘pointing eye’ – both are equally focused on the clay – and the gun isn’t therefore lined up with either eye. You train your brain to do the calculation for you subconsciously so, without you needing to look down them, the barrels are in the right position at the moment you pull  the trigger, to result in a broken clay. It’s like learning to become a super efficient ball catcher. Remember you had to learn how to catch (and even walk), as a toddler, and then at school or sports club you may have found you could improve your skills by being really focused on the ball and using other strategies. Once your brain has learned what you want it to do, this ‘training’  then becomes subconscious mechanics. If you ‘pre-load’ the sight picture you want your eye/brain to see at the ‘kill point’ before starting the shot your brain can do all the calculations for you, leaving you to focus on the clay so that that data from your central vision can be fully processed by the brain to achieve the break. This is the case of the gun being simply the brain’s instrument to achieve the result it knows you want.

As I said, I find this works very well for me personally, which is the acid test as far as I'm concerned, and I don't need to question all the theory, but I do understand it. Every shooter will adopt the method they find works best for them. I've found mine.

 

[Macc Ladd]

What discipline do you shoot, and what classification are you??

 

[targetchip]

longmynd,

eye cross dominance is not and issue in the day to day life! However when an object is lined up to our eyes( Ex the gun) , very close to the eyes, it is impossible to ignore it.  Try  to rotate our eyes in any direction and the gun will be present in your peripheral vision!

Despite that, " the sight picture"( gun -target relationship) has two parts the gun in the peripheral vision and the target on which we focus.

If you " ignore" the gun how do you know how much lead you need to break different targets and how you correct the lead if you are wrong with the first attempt.??? Why do you mount the gun then??? One more thing, nothing is "subconscious" in shooting, only when we pull the trigger,we are not thinking how to do that, in rest....

 

[unplugged]

You kids need to RUN NOW FOREST! 

Bill has invaded!!

He has managed to ruin every discussion on shotgun world, and NOW he's HERE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[targetchip]

The way I put some questions here, is the way i do over there The only problem there is they don't like to chew ( read think) before they swallow.!!

They swallow everything that is " shinny" without any thinking process.

For many years,now, I tried to make them to think and follow the logic( here is where I ruin every discussion), but that's offensive  for them, more than anything else.!

An other way to ruin a discussion is to question any local "guru"instructor) that sell stuff to them. Then you can see jumping all over!

 They( the gurus) are considered unteachable and a tabu subject to be discuss!

Well, lets see what's happening here

 

[Salopian]

Well I guess this topic is now dead in the water.

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

Yawn yawn yawn! Can see this going on and on and on and on yawn! Would like to bum stear this thread

By asking people's thoughts about Shotstring " how long is yours" .

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I did smelt a rat in the OP question then.

P.s. I don't like shiny things (so don't worry) I read .....consider.....then use what works for me.

I do not mind where the info comes from....if it is good info.

But I hate coaches attacking other coaches just like I do not like ground owner criticising other grounds.

It is just distasteful and not professional.

Discussion yes.....veiled discussion with an agenda...no.

 

[Gadget Grandad]

I went for the whole weekend and have to say, I agree with what others have said about the event. I am new to this sport and started late at 60.

I am the type of person that cannot do anything on blind faith and doing things because that's the way it has always been done.

I found the way things were explained to me, and the reasons for doing x y and z made total sense to me and was brilliant.

I was having trouble with shooting with both eyes open, I was working on it before i went on the course but it became so much clearer to me when it was explained what is happening with my eyes and brain.

Have I gone fro C class to A class not yet I still have a lot of work to do,, but I believe I have had a good grounding to get there.

I cannot believe some of the comments I have read about Gil and Vicki;s method on this forum and others from people who have never experienced it, as far as I an concerned people who make such comments have no credibility.

Value for money? you bet,met some nice people, not only great tuition but great entertainment as well, great teaching style. Also have access to a brilliant resource on their website.

Was it professional ? Yes it was, not once did I hear them knocking any other coaches or their methods, but then if they don't FEAR them why would they?

I for one am looking forward to their next visit.

 

[Will Hewland]

Fair enough post 52. There is sure some scope for tackling this sport in different ways and its all about finding the way that works for you. If you watch the top 10 shots in this country, they don't all have the same style by any means.

I got quickly turned off Gil Ash by his posts on here last year because it made no sense to me. I would happily sit in on a course for research purposes (but not convinced enough to throw cash at it)

 

[Gadget Grandad]

Hi Post 53 sorry don't know your name. If you were following the posts last year i am sure Gil invited all coaches and others to his seminar on the Saturday for free.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I went for the whole weekend and have to say, I agree with what others have said about the event. I am new to this sport and started late at 60.

I am the type of person that cannot do anything on blind faith and doing things because that's the way it has always been done.

I found the way things were explained to me, and the reasons for doing x y and z made total sense to me and was brilliant.

I was having trouble with shooting with both eyes open, I was working on it before i went on the course but it became so much clearer to me when it was explained what is happening with my eyes and brain.

Have I gone fro C class to A class not yet I still have a lot of work to do,, but I believe I have had a good grounding to get there.

I cannot believe some of the comments I have read about Gil and Vicki;s method on this forum and others from people who have never experienced it, as far as I an concerned people who make such comments have no credibility.

Value for money? you bet,met some nice people, not only great tuition but great entertainment as well, great teaching style. Also have access to a brilliant resource on their website.

Was it professional ? Yes it was, not once did I hear them knocking any other coaches or their methods, but then if they don't FEAR them why would they?

I for one am looking forward to their next visit.

Well said.

+1

 

[chubby]

does not having a bead help?

 

[targetchip]

Gadged <

I am doubting Tomas!

I explain you why , if you are eye cross dominate the method of " focusing on the target and the gun in the peripheral vision,don't works.!

If you want me to buy what you are selling, do the same, explain how the process works!!

My opinion is that::

1) you are not eye cross dominate

2) GIl is doing miracles .

Please go and talk with a serious Brit coach and tell him what " happened" to your cross dominance attending Gil's clinic and come back and share with us!

Tinker bell,, only people without a personal opinion and lack of personality contribute to a forum with "+1"

Just me!

.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Now I cannot use +1...??

One minute I get told I type too much.

Now I get told I lack personality for putting a short +1.......by someone I do not know.

Several on here use +1

Can I politely suggest that you get used to the English way?

 

[targetchip]

+1