Good old days

[Fortis Mark]

The current system was probably devised by a sandbagger.  

Why would an AA or A class shot work hard to put in a good score to win class when he / she can throw shoots, and get the same payout in B/C class with a lower score ? I know we are only talking about a small percentage of shooters overall, as most do not entertain such practices. 

If the poor bar-stewards need £50 / £100 that bad they should get a better job, which should alleviate the need to cheat.  

I'm not sure how the current system could be improved, maybe no money in C / B class, only A and up.  At least that would provide an incentive to become a better shot which would be a good thing for shooting in general.

Or Limit the payout in the lower classes perhaps, so for those where the money is important, they have the incentive to aim for the top instead of it being a race to the bottom!

 

[maddmatt]

You could change the current system, the technology exists so you could have rolling monthly averages, shoot well you go up, shoot badly it would take 3 months to drop, stops sandbagging. And to level the playing field even more you could increse the number of classes to truely reflect the skill level of shooters in those classes, so Pro, AA, A, B, C, D just an idea

 

[maddmatt]

For me the incentive would be to get in to the Pro class...

 

[Hamster]

The current system was probably devised by a sandbagger.  

Why would an AA or A class shot work hard to put in a good score to win class when he / she can throw shoots, and get the same payout in B/C class with a lower score ? I know we are only talking about a small percentage of shooters overall, as most do not entertain such practices. 

If the poor bar-stewards need £50 / £100 that bad they should get a better job, which should alleviate the need to cheat.  

I'm not sure how the current system could be improved, maybe no money in C / B class, only A and up.  At least that would provide an incentive to become a better shot which would be a good thing for shooting in general.

Or Limit the payout in the lower classes perhaps, so for those where the money is important, they have the incentive to aim for the top instead of it being a race to the bottom!

I think it's a myth that anyone seriously sandbags their way to a couple of hundred quid :logik:  in days gone prior to having to shoot 300 registered targets the odd sadact may have thrown a 100 birder to then spend a year cashing in at the bigger shoots but even then there can have been no guarantees because on the day others could outshoot and wipe the smile off the cheats face.

 

[Salopian]

As many have alluded to, the system is very flawed but it is possibly the best we can do unless anyone has a GOOD idea.

Personally I have seen it all, people deliberately scrapping good cards to stay in a lower class to enable them to pick up class money regularly, AA scrapping cards to avoid lowering their averages. So I do not really know what the answer is apart from saying shoot to the best of your ability and let the class percentages take care of themselves. But I do think shooting in bad conditions does greatly effect averages obviously.

Maybe we could have a system where if you finish in the top three of any class a certain number of times (regularly?) you automatically progress to the next highest class ?? This hopefully would deter the sandbaggers!

 

[RobertBeard]

In golf and other shooting sports you can be re-classified based on performance above expected.

Some people probably need to be moved on up the classes quicker than is provided by the averages system but also this would cope with spotting and re-classifying the sandbaggers. 

Question is who is to do it and based on what criteria? 

We could end up with national classifications plus local grounds not allowing someone to shoot in their comps using a national average but a higher one imposed locally.  If this can't happen for registered comps then it certainly could at Open meetings.

It would be a big overhead on grounds reviewing entries and classes against past results to identify sandbaggers and do they really care unless it gets so bad that it stops people entering and reducing the numbers at their shoots.

 

[Les53]

When I first came into clay shooting back in the 1980's I joined a small local club. At that time they had sporting, DTL and ABT, as well as have a go stands.  They did not do registered shoots for whatever reason, but we did have club and open comps, these were scratch matches of course, there were always prizes of some sort, normally down to third, but I don't remember much in the way of cash prizes to be honest. I still have the gold browning tie pin I won in an ABT comp and a medals I won for DTL and ABT, I still have various other straight badges from the RW Trap Club Bisley, they also ran the Bisley League which was a handicap league but not registered and the winners only got badges and/or trophies as far as I remember, no money!! For a lot of us back then, money was not as important as winning. There were a few ABT scratch matches around in those days where you could win a fair amount of money, but it cost quite a bit to enter and there was always side betting going on too. Times have changed I guess!!!

 

[ips]

As many have alluded to, the system is very flawed but it is possibly the best we can do unless anyone has a GOOD idea.

I do, count back same as is used for selection shoots. HG gets 0 points if your 10 behind him you get 10 points and the classification based on that. This would ensure that when we shoot a hard event or in bad weather your score for classification would be much fairer. If this was implemented we could shoot year round without fear of our averages taking a nose dive thus good for grounds and shooters. Everyones a winner. Also I think that once you have represented county or country or won a major you should not be able to drop down lower than "B" (in trap) or second class down from top, unless a few years pass were your scores decrease. Some of the above may need tweeking and some thigs adding but that's my general idea.

 

[Les53]

. If this was implemented we could shoot year round .

What in this bloody weather Ian? When you get to my age my lad, you will think twice about shooting in sh*te weather. In fact, it cannot possibly do your neck and back any good at all to shoot in cold and damp/wet conditions! You need to get another hobby Ian, the local pub is often a good choice.......well it is for me.....plenty of lively chat and beer whilst we wait to see if we are on flood warning or evacuation. They sent in the army to evacuate some people last weekend, well somebody had to get the drunks out of West Bay!!!!! :laugh:

 

[ips]

Good point Les, recently I have not bothered if the weather has been too bad and your right it doesn't do the back or neck any good at all.

My God am I getting old

 

[Les53]

Good point Les, recently I have not bothered if the weather has been too bad and your right it doesn't do the back or neck any good at all.

My God am I getting old

 Eeerrrr.....well.......yes! But aren't we all mate! Nothing we can do to stop it either. :console:

 

[westley]

GENTLEMEN, I can only think it must be a 'trap thing'. Of the group that I shoot with I am the youngest at approaching 68, the eldest being mid 70's. We consider ourselves 'youngsters' when compared to a Guy that never misses an outing, regardless of the weather. Albeit he now drives his car between stands and uses, dare I say it.................................an auto, at approaching 84, he can still hit a lot more than he misses. As an ex sniper who copped a bullet through the head, during the Korean conflict, he puts a lot of youngsters to shame. Hail, rain or shine he is there and loving every minute of it and that is without the firing points being covered, he reckons he will probably turn to trap shooting when he gets older and can not do the walking !  

 

[ips]

Good on him, may he shoot for many years to come.

 

[westley]

+1

 

[chubby]

Matt you might make AA but now you have a job I don't think so

 

[stevekeat]

I dont know if this has been mentioned before but why not just scrap the class system and have a handicap like in golf? that way everyone has a chance at high gun and everyone starts on a level playing field for the top spot (in theory)