Gunfit & Correct length of Stock

[jwpzx9r]

I am a really lowly C class shooter who does not get out enough so please read the following comment in that light!

The American in this picture may be world class for all I know but for me the stock looks too long!  The butt seems to be more near the top of his arm than in the pocket of his shoulder.  He appears to be straining forward from the look of his neck and the line of his shoulders looks to be almost in line with the gun or at a very acute angle rather than more square to the line of the gun.

So the end of his cheek may be at the point of the comb if that's important but I don't see it as a relaxed, comfortable position and it looks forced to me.

Does anyone else share my view?

Most outstanding shooters will make anything work and I once saw Barry Dagger pick up a rifle from a student who was berating it as he had a crap score and Barry proceeded to shoot a brilliant score with no jacket, sling, glove etc and the rifle not adjusted to him, just to prove there was nothing wrong with the gun!  

That is not my view of his mount but here is a pic that probably better illustrates my point ... you must know this guy... mind you he is a trappie who can only shoot a very limited variation of targets 

 

[Sian]

I will let you know on Saturday

I'm off to AGL for a gunfitting session on Friday ...

:santa:  

Hoorah

 

[Mike L]

I had a gunfit and lesson up at Holland and Holland last week, 2 for 1 price deal, was a very very interesting session on the pattern plate and traps, came away with my measurements for future reference.

also happens to be a nice grounds.

mike

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

Does anyone have any recommendations for gun fitting in the Gloucestershire/Oxfordshire/Warwickshire area? It would be sporting focused.

 

[squimp]

Interesting thread.

I shoot sporting and game. I went to see John Jeffries a while back and he put half an inch on my LOP immediately. It seems to help. I now shoot a surprisingly long stock. 

I have always tried to minimise the slope of the comb (even tried monte carlo style stocks) for two reasons: to minimise recoil and to minimise the effect of mounting variations/ different face positions for varying targets.

I once went to a well known ground to get measurements for a side by side. The figures I got given were garbage -  I could have done the job better myself. I also did the same as MikeL at H and H a few years ago. The results were fine.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I have no definitive answer about Kim Rhode but she started shooting when she was 2 or 3 or something like that and prolly grew up never having had a gun that actually fit properly.  And she has become rather more substantial over the recent years and that may contribute as well.

totally agree with will. I would imagine sporting lop would need to be different

I sorta think that I would disagree.  A general statement like that totally fails to take into account ALL the other factors inherent in gun selection and preference.  A gun that fits is a gun that fits.  I suppose an uncommonly long LOP would hinder low-gun games but that doesn't seem to be the LOP under discussion here.  

JMO of course

 

[Salopian]

Wonko,

I would like ' what is the correct LoP? ' to be under discussion , but as with all topics personal preferences will be forwarded, and that is exactly what a forum should be about.

Short Trap stocks full mounted will be ideal for reactive shooting at swift going away angled targets, but would possibly be unwieldly from gun down, as would too long a stock for gundown disciplines.

Personally I do think the photographs of the International Trap shooters does not look pleasing to my eye and no doubt to their noses on occasions.

 

[FreeShot]

Here is my part - being a regular "M" guy of 5´8"  it comes as a rather surprise that I kinda like longish stocks more...as first reminder I have shot some great scores with borrowed guns from my tall friends - with stocks of 15". Next time - the first time I shouldered my MK70 with 14 3/4" stock in the store it felt perfect, just a bit long - oddly it still does today when I pick my gun up after some time - the first thing that comes to my mind is  - I should shave 1/4" off. However after making 2 dry mounts all is well - this gets even better when shooting. We shoot low gun only (trap and sporting) here - I had my gun for a week and attended a national 100 trap event - scored 89/100 that was excellent then btw - I haven't a get a single stuck on with this stock and surprisingly I can shoot 28 g Parcours through this gun with factory hard plastic cap on 2 day 200 target competiton without any problems - how much it is LOP related i don't know. If I measure the distance between tmy thumb and nose it is spot on 2".

And just out of curiosity - check this kid - he is a regular at our shoots. He is shooting his father's Beretta with ease and very good on both Trap and Sporting low gun - and is just plain delight to watch - pics are taken at 2 different shoots.

 

[Simonix]

I'm 6'2" and fairly wide in the shoulders (unfortunately widening in the waist too!), and my stock is 14.75" LOP and I get on great with it. 

I have had several people quite a bit shorter than me say they find my gun too short for them?!

I think the point I'm trying to make is, to a degree, surely it's personal opinion and your technique/stance/mount, etc?

 

[Jan Powell]

Trap and sporting are different. At the risk of offending IPS, there is a lot more variety of movement in sporting which this massively head forward side on stance would not suit. In other words, it's really worth keeping trap and sporting separate when discussing many issues of "clay shooting". 

Completely agree with that. Trap (particularly fast trap) shooters will err towards a gun fit that pushes their face forward, almost to the point that the cheek is falling off the comb as in the picture of Glenn Eller above. Sporting, and to a lesser extent skeet, is different. 

I would say this, don't worry about stock length too much whatever discipline you shoot. It is the one element of gunfit that isn't critical to good shooting. Providing the stock isn't way too short or long you'll be fine.

 

[Rosso]

I always thought a quick check was to lay the stock on your arm with the butt plate at the crease of where it meets upper arm elbow joint then reach for the trigger, handy for trigger adjustment. This is one of many checks but is quick and easy. 

 

[Will Hewland]

I always thought a quick check was to lay the stock on your arm with the butt plate at the crease of where it meets upper arm elbow joint then reach for the trigger, handy for trigger adjustment. This is one of many checks but is quick and easy. 

Real old wives tale. Might get you within 2" of where you need to be though.. It takes no account of your neck or face! When I shot the HPX perazzis, JJ fitted some to me, mainly looking at the angle of my arms when mounted.

 

[chippy]

I too, have heard the two finger rule from a few sources.

I must check my stock length as I regularly get people gesturing that my stock is wrong. It must be quite a way out as some are still trying to let me know while iam driving home.

 

[move-mount-miss]

I always thought a quick check was to lay the stock on your arm with the butt plate at the crease of where it meets upper arm elbow joint then reach for the trigger, handy for trigger adjustment. This is one of many checks but is quick and easy. 

That doesn't allow for ****s or moobs.?

 

[Rosso]

Nothing allows for moobs or ****s unless they hang down your arms ?

Real old wives tale. Might get you within 2" of where you need to be though.. It takes no account of your neck or face! When I shot the HPX perazzis, JJ fitted some to me, mainly looking at the angle of my arms when mounted.

try it and see. It's a bit like thumb lengths and shoe size thinking if you know what I mean.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Wonko,

I would like ' what is the correct LoP? ' to be under discussion , but as with all topics personal preferences will be forwarded, and that is exactly what a forum should be about.

Short Trap stocks full mounted will be ideal for reactive shooting at swift going away angled targets, but would possibly be unwieldly from gun down, as would too long a stock for gundown disciplines.

Personally I do think the photographs of the International Trap shooters does not look pleasing to my eye and no doubt to their noses on occasions.

Who gives a toss what the gunmount looks like it is not a fashion parade. Top shots, like the ones shown in the photographs, base their gunmount around getting the most reproducible positive results . What would e the point of " having a wonderful looking gunmount" only to be a piss poor shot.

 

[EdSolomons]

The right length is whatever allows the shooter to mount comfortably and consistently to the same place.

there is no hard and fast rule, there are guidelines but they are just that. Massively dependant on stance, build and discipline.

sadly the crook of the arm thing is about as much use as **** on a fish!

ed

 

[westley]

I will let you know on Saturday

I'm off to AGL for a gunfitting session on Friday ...

:santa:

Well done, hope it goes well. I have seen some of their work on a EELL field (also used as sporter) and they did a super job for £175, in fact I have been telling him for some 10 years the stocks are too high on all of his guns, the first move was to drop the stock but because they did it, it was bound to be correct ! 

 

[Santa2512]

OK,   so after my indepth understanding of the thread, i have compiled a list of questions to ask

1) Is it better to be a trappie and use a trap gun, or a sporter with a sporting gun 

2) Should a trappie use a sporter, and a sporter a trap gun to achieve best kills

3) Is all tweed best for breaks, or a mix of modern fabrics and tweed.

4) If i use a shooting vest, should it be sponsored, or discreet,  closed back or mesh back

5) Should I have my nose within 2 inches of the heel of my thumb when mounted, or is the rib / eye relationship more important.

6) if the rib / eye relationship is more important, How does that tie in with LOP etc..

Any others you can think of

:santa:   x

Hoorah

Plan B coming together

:santa: x

 

[Salopian]

Santa,

 Methinks you have had too many pretty girls sitting on your knee. It's befuddled you.