Had my first go at DTL today, already got a question.

[jwpzx9r]

Ok at the risk of causing a bun fight   As I see it the only explanation for gun holds is as a form of insurance policy. A right hander favours right to left targets a left hander prefers left to right. In positioning your gun hold you are favouring your weaker side knowing that if the target goes of to the other side then its your good side and it will be getting straighter the more you move toward your bad peg ie. further right for a right hander. This is therefore a good risk because the shot to your good side should be makeable, even though you are making it more difficult, and the shot to your naturally bad side which you in theory at least are making easier !

Olympic trap is a strange situation though I have heard most OT shooters say gun hold is central, which if you beg my pardon does not really make sense because in reality a left right for a right hander is still the most difficult target and it should be favoured according to the convention of gun holds, Now I know the trap is a lot faster but the same rules should apply... surely?

Finally a good shooter does not for this very reason, in theory at least, need to have a gun hold point he or she does not have a weak side both are easily makeable

NOW before you all go loading up your shooters to blow me away read my post and tell me where I am wrong, don't just blurt out that's s**** give me the reason why it might be so, so I can better understand

 

[ips]

on each station keep gun pointed at trap house centre front, as it is a rising target you will pull up through target, as your barrel vision is just below clay pull trigger keep gun moving upwards, the only two difficult targets on dtl to my experience are a left hander on station one and a right hander on station five try shooting down the outer edge of these targets

wullie s

(ex Warwickshire team dtl shooter)

hi there,

everyone shoots differently and some do shoot from centre on all pegs at Dtl and this IMO is the best thing for a beginer as saves confusion and to much info to think about however i have yet to meet any top Dtl shooter who does not use the 5 position technique. John stafford a friend of mine for many many years adapted this technique quite radically using different gun heights per peg particularly a very unusual hold on peg 5 were he was holding many yards to the right of the trap house. John IMO is the best natural shooter that ever picked a gun up and if 5 position was his choice then its got to be the right way.

 

[GunSport]

More info here to help you work out your own way of finding the sweet spots...

Hi Nicola, can I ask which book this is from ? It looks quite a good reference. Thanks  

 

[jwpzx9r]

CPSA manual I think ! Or at least they have the same illustration's.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

How interesting. I shall consider it.

Pssst ...OT is like standing on peg 3 .....all the time....just saying.

 

[jwpzx9r]

How interesting. I shall consider it.

Pssst ...OT is like standing on peg 3 .....all the time....just saying.

Yes Nic this I know BUT on some of those pegs you could/will depending on the prog get that really nasty 45 degree left right convention for a right handed shooter says take a chance on a gun hold to the right of centre since a right handed shooter can naturally move to the left better without disturbing the head stock relationship. What I am saying as you well know that even if on one peg the angles were 45 right left  0 and 45 left right, for a right handed shooter a gun hold to the right of centre would be an advantage. Now I and you know there are good reasons why you would not do that, but the theory is correct and some of these guys can remember where that peg is.

From what I can see of those really top OT shooters they are oblivious to gun hold, the have a routine  and setup and stick to it, but I know you have greater knowledge of this sport and may know different ? I have watched quite a few world cup vids though and have yet to see a shooter miss a no bird, I suspect because sometimes the nature of the no bird lets them they know where it is going before they call it up but again you may be able to tell me different. I know I have had a couple of no birds at UT which gave me an advantage in that respect.. still missed one though

 

[ehb102]

If this makes it clearer.....

Great information in this thread, Nicola. Thank you for sharing it. I used it today to great effect. My efforts were only spoiled by the discovery that my high girlie voice calling "pull!" does not cut the mustard for the voice activated trap.

 

[ips]

Ok at the risk of causing a bun fight As I see it the only explanation for gun holds is as a form of insurance policy. A right hander favours right to left targets a left hander prefers left to right. In positioning your gun hold you are favouring your weaker side knowing that if the target goes of to the other side then its your good side and it will be getting straighter the more you move toward your bad peg ie. further right for a right hander. This is therefore a good risk because the shot to your good side should be makeable, even though you are making it more difficult, and the shot to your naturally bad side which you in theory at least are making easier !

Olympic trap is a strange situation though I have heard most OT shooters say gun hold is central, which if you beg my pardon does not really make sense because in reality a left right for a right hander is still the most difficult target and it should be favoured according to the convention of gun holds, Now I know the trap is a lot faster but the same rules should apply... surely?

Finally a good shooter does not for this very reason, in theory at least, need to have a gun hold point he or she does not have a weak side both are easily makeable

NOW before you all go loading up your shooters to blow me away read my post and tell me where I am wrong, don't just blurt out that's s**** give me the reason why it might be so, so I can better understand

Jwp

Setting up gun hold off centre for certain disciplines is not just for making your bad side easier its also to do with the pick up point of the target trajectory. For instance lets take abt as an example on peg 3 obviously you see it emerge from the trap right in front of you so you hold over the mark. On peg 5 if you hold on the mark a right hander will emerge from under your barrel to the right so best thing to do is hold off centre to the right the straight target will be slightly on your left but should be no problem. As nic said earlier ot is abt off peg 3 so really ot is a piece of pis and abt is the real mans game

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Gunsport it is from the Cpsa Coaching Manual. Although it is not very technical....it gives a rough idea for a start in the discipline.

 

[FloaterSi]

Thanks everyone (especially Nicola) for the wealth of information. Plenty to get me teeth into and experiment with, especially that hybrid hold. I think the majority of my misses were headed out to the right, I surprised myself with hitting the ones far left. I think on the ones to the right I was shooting down the inside of them or just got on them too late.

 

[GunSport]

Thank you Nicola, and jwp.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Jwp

Setting up gun hold off centre for certain disciplines is not just for making your bad side easier its also to do with the pick up point of the target trajectory. For instance lets take abt as an example on peg 3 obviously you see it emerge from the trap right in front of you so you hold over the mark. On peg 5 if you hold on the mark a right hander will emerge from under your barrel to the right so best thing to do is hold off centre to the right the straight target will be slightly on your left but should be no problem. As nic said earlier ot is abt off peg 3 so really ot is a piece of pis and abt is the real mans game

Yes ips this is quite true! I never hold my gun on the centre at ABT I am right handed and hold above and slightly to the right that lets me see the way it is going. In fact all my gun holds for ABT and UT are above the level of the fosse.  I have coaching manuals by Ian Coley and Chris Batha on trap shooting the both describe the positions and reasoning behind gun holds quite well

 

[ips]

John

yes same here my Ut hold is pretty much the same as abt exaggerated a little at Ut depending on the layout on the day. I try to pick a spot or imagine a line straight out from peg 3 at about 10yds and use this as a reference point.

 

[ips]

As an aside, i don't think that the hold point is as critical on any trap discipline as it is for Ut. Incorrect gun hold point at Ut will lead to major problems with target acquisition IMO

 

[Dog Tyred]

As an aside, i don't think that the hold point is as critical on any trap discipline as it is for Ut. Incorrect gun hold point at Ut will lead to major problems with target acquisition IMO

I have found this as I recently tried a bit of UT and really struggled with it. Didn't know whether to hold above the trap house, on the trap house or what?

Simple diagram like the ones earlier in this thread please.

DT