i am confused

[ips]

esp for me os about pulling the trigger for fun with no pressure however the competitive side of me is rearing its head and becoming confused. So some questions / observations...

I shoot trap instinctively with no conscious thought of lead or anything I just look hard at the target and let it happen. I asumed rightly or wrongly that esp targets required a more cognitive approach were target and muzzle awareness and measured lead came into play. I have shot some esp targets like my trap style mainly out of frustration and it seems to work however longer quartering shots or crossers I seem not to be able to trust myself and end up trying to measure the lead.

so the questions are

do any esp shooters use the just let it happen method on every target presentation or do you require a contrived approach on some or all. I know there are many ways to skin a rabbit just interested if my way of skinning one is at all possible for a discipline with such a variety of targets or if its a case of requiring a few methods and learning which one to use for a given situation ??

 

[paul b]

Whilst everyone is different, when i am on form at esp (very rarely now trap has turned me crap)i can just shoot with the subconscious like you do at trap but the rub with that is my subconscious has a memory bank of leads and hold points etc built up over years of learning them.All you can do is keep getting different presentations nailed to the point where you hit them without thinking then move on to the next thing you are struggling with.In one of digweeds trailers for his club show he shows a trap that he walks away from after hitting the clay then if he misses he goes back a few paces,great exercise if you can do it re space etc.

 

[ips]

thanks Paul so what your saying is yes you can but only experience of many varieties of target can equip you with the necessary memory bank. Maybe I am fighting my natural method thinking that I need to learn a totally new technique instead of accepting the way I do it is the way I do it.

Ps

i just shot the skeet and wasn't ever intimidated by the crossers but if that target was on esp I would undoubtedly have shot it much slower and tried to measure it

 

[FreeShot]

do any esp shooters use the just let it happen method on every target presentation or do you require a contrived approach on some or all

For me only difference is in preparation for the shot that is different for every clay - break point, feet, gunhold, visual hold, pull and then I let it happen. From beginning it is all very concious - like dancing when you count steps trying, look at your feet...later on it gets subcoincous and your only major task is focus on the clay (ergo same as trap).

 

[paul b]

When i started my natural method was a fast swingthrough and one of the only lessons i  had was with carl bloxam and he was saying yes it works well but i was always coming back to far making swing through a slash rather than a push.I wouldnt fight what you have it will do for most things,the most important thing is to build confidence.

 

[ips]

For me only difference is in preparation for the shot that is different for every clay - break point, feet, gunhold, visual hold, pull and then I let it happen. From beginning it is all very concious - like dancing when you count steps trying, look at your feet...later on it gets subcoincous and your only major task is focus on the clay (ergo same as trap).

When i started my natural method was a fast swingthrough and one of the only lessons i  had was with carl bloxam and he was saying yes it works well but i was always coming back to far making swing through a slash rather than a push.I wouldnt fight what you have it will do for most things,the most important thing is to build confidence.

two excellent posts which have both answered my question exactly. I need to stop trying and stop over analysing it and treat it the same as I treat a trap target, just shoot it.

freeshot. I take onboard what you say about preparation feet hold point etc get a routine for that then let the magic happen.

most informative and genuinely helpfull from both of you

 

[FreeShot]

It should do for general use - beware of targets that may mislead you - like minis for me - I must conciously prepare to cut the lead on those or on very long crossers to stay on them just a tad longer etc...each to his own I guess.

 

[ips]

spose its just a case of experience really

 

[ChrisPackham]

I read a book called ' the instinctive shot' which I found really helpful.  In the book it talks about 'see bird,shoot bird', if I do this then I shoot well, if I start to think about things then scores fall off a cliff.

 

[ips]

I read a book called 'instinctive shooting' which I found really helpful.  In the book it talks about 'see bird,shoot bird', if I do this then I shoot well, if I start to think about things then scores fall off a cliff.

I am EXACTLY the same. The reason that I posted was that I was not sure if it was possible to shoot esp this way as all the talk of maintained lead and everything else would indicate a degree of conscious thought. I am not good at conscious thought ?

 

[ChrisPackham]

The best tip I have been given is to find something that works for you and stick to it, sure you need to try other things but nothing has screwed me up more than other people's hints and tips, whether paid for, solicited and otherwise.  Same goes for chokes and cartridges, it's just finding the confidence to trust yourself I found the hardest thing to do.

 

[ips]

The best tip I have been given is to find something that works for you and stick to it, sure you need to try other things but nothing has screwed me up more than other people's hints and tips, whether paid for, solicited and otherwise.  Same goes for chokes and cartridges, it's just finding the confidence to trust yourself I found the hardest thing to do.

totally agree. I am confident and settled with my style (be a poor do if I wasn't after thirty years) as I say I just wasn't sure if the approach would work at esp.

 

[ChrisPackham]

totally agree. I am confident and settled with my style (be a poor do if I wasn't after thirty years) as I say I just wasn't sure if the approach would work at esp.

Can't see why not

 

[ips]

I think I have been intimidated by targets that I am not used to and given to much thought to it.

 

[Bebo]

Swing through will work on lots of targets, but you might find it a problem on anything very slow, hanging or curving.  Loopers are often better shot with maintained lead then you can follow the line of the target better.  Just need to make sure you keep enough gun speed and not slow down measuring the lead.

 

[Sian]

I am EXACTLY the same. The reason that I posted was that I was not sure if it was possible to shoot esp this way as all the talk of maintained lead and everything else would indicate a degree of conscious thought. I am not good at conscious thought ?

Maintained lead can be useful , some use it a lot. I don't use it consciously.  I have apparently used it but not really been aware of it and it has worked on those occasions but I find when I do try to use it I overthink everything and get it wrong.  There are lots of different methods used in sporting and whilst I like swing through a lot it cannot always be used so I have to use alternative methods.

 

[DavidJ]

I tend to use a mix of methods including shooting some targets with my left eye dimmed/closed. I find for slower incomming and close targets, I get a sharper picture and can without looking back at the gun see the relationship of barrels to target much easier. I'd even go as far as mentioning rifling again!

I've taken to Ben Husthwaite's methods, it seems to work for me. I try to setup for as little gun movement as possible and I try to hold my barrels on the flight line of the clay or just below. I'm then not searching for the clay.

I also try to shoot the clay when its doing as little as possible on it's flight

 

[schmokinn]

Swing through will work on lots of targets, but you might find it a problem on anything very slow, hanging or curving.  Loopers are often better shot with maintained lead then you can follow the line of the target better.  Just need to make sure you keep enough gun speed and not slow down measuring the lead.

i shoot loopers/battues as crossers just pick a point on the arc and draw a line across shoot under it if i try to follow the line i usually end up outside the arc and miss.

not saying you are wrong it just demonstrates the different ways that people shoot the same target.

 

[Bebo]

i shoot loopers/battues as crossers just pick a point on the arc and draw a line across shoot under it if i try to follow the line i usually end up outside the arc and miss.

not saying you are wrong it just demonstrates the different ways that people shoot the same target.

If it's a fast, relatively flat one I do much the same.  If it a big slow one then I'll follow the clay with a fixed lead and generally try to get it after it's peaked before it starts dropping at a rate of knots.  As you say, clays are like cats, plenty of ways to skin them.