KIDS AND GUNS

[Wonko the Sane]

You make some good points Unplugged.

The one thing I will pull you up on is that we do not have to "beg our government to "allow" us to have a shotgun".

In the UK we have a right to own a shotgun(s) which can only be vetoed if the police can show that you are an unfit person (criminal record etc - we do not let felons have firearms over here - it results in fewer deaths) or you have a prohibitive illness.

Really?  A "right" to shotguns?  That in the magna carta?  Subject of legislation?  Did you have a "right" to pistol possession/ownership as well?  What's to keep the big guys from just taking the shotguns too?  We here are supposed to have a RIGHT!  Well, that's BS too.  The cops can grab your guns on crapo reasons and tho they can be retrieved it could cost a fortune in legal fees and you prolly not gonna live long enough to press some suit for penalty.  

This can only be done by improved global control and issue of firearms.

That's a joke, right?  And you think you'll still have a shotgun if that happens?

There are lots an lots of things that I'd like to add, book's worth prolly.  But I'm not.  It accomplishes nothing.  When the pols decide to take all the guns from law abiding citizens they'll do it.  The bad guys will always have weapons since they don't have any kinda legal bounds and never have.

have as good a one as ya can

 

[Wonko the Sane]

and JIC you may have missed this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

"The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain."

hmmmmmm and you said - "A documentary like that could not have been made in this country. 

Amber Hill on country file is a fine example of how a programe should be made. 
Very positive and makes us all proud to be British. 
Want to make a stupid programe go somewhere stupid to make it. "

and just where would that be, do you think?

again from the Telegraph - - in the excerpt below the bolding is mine just to help you out

The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

 

[Paul120]

Depends on what's being counted.

Statistics, don't we all love em..

 

[Finners]

Good to see that Embarrassing Bodies is on before the show, we can now spend the hole evening watching a load of silly arses!  

"hole" I see what you did there. Liking your work :biggrin:  

 

[Jim Wheeler]

the forward by Damian Green,,the Police minister, his first paragraph states that a firearm licence is a privilege, not a right.  this is june 2014.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/329845/GuideFirearmsLicensingLawJune14.pdf

  point being, as has been said, the problem is not (normally) the licenced citizen. we all know it's the criminal element is 99% the problem. not confined to any one country,,it's a worldwide problem.i'm willing to bet that lightening kills more people worldwide than lawful owners of firearms. (excluding Oscar Pistorious! :crazy:  maybe?)

still, knee jerk reaction to gun owners and laws  is not confined to the UK,or anywhere else.

i can say that i'm surprised there is no compulsory practical or written tests involved in the licencing process in the UK? (which there is is South Africa, surprisingly!, i have police competancy certificates in 5 different  types of weapons), must be the strictest laws anywhere in SA,, with the highest (almost) crime rate! not legal owners tho"!

 

[bostonmick]

Well this thread seems to have gone nicely off track.all the argument about crime rates and are you allowed what gun is immaterial.this programme was made with one aim and that was to shock and portray gun owners as obsessive idiots.at no point in the film did the producers state that what they were showing could not happen in the uk it was totally misleading to the non shooting people of our country.i found some of the content hard to believe and I have been around guns all my life.i truly hope we do not have to sit through anymore of this contrived rubbish again.shooting is among the safest of all sports in this country and it's a pity this statistic is not pushed out to joe public with the same enthusiasm .atb

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Depends on what's being counted.

Statistics, don't we all love em..

I feel your pain.  Innit just a total bitch when your own guys put together such nasty stats and then your own press goes and publishes them.

Well this thread seems to have gone nicely off track.all the argument about crime rates and are you allowed what gun is immaterial.this programme was made with one aim and that was to shock and portray gun owners as obsessive idiots.at no point in the film did the producers state that what they were showing could not happen in the uk it was totally misleading to the non shooting people of our country.i found some of the content hard to believe and I have been around guns all my life.i truly hope we do not have to sit through anymore of this contrived rubbish again.shooting is among the safest of all sports in this country and it's a pity this statistic is not pushed out to joe public with the same enthusiasm .atb

Stats like that will never see the light of day since they serve no purpose for the substantiation that guns are the cause of ALL of the world's problems.  And if you had any sense of right and wrong you'd hate guns for the evil that they are too.

 

[Paul120]

I feel your pain.  Innit just a total bitch when your own guys put together such nasty stats and then your own press goes and publishes them.

Spot on,

It's a politcal piece in a right wing newspaper to discredit (in this case law and order) the Left(ish) goverment of the time, "appropriate" stats that look remotely believable are used to do this . We're used to it overhere, as i'm guessing most other countries are and tend to take most thing written in newpaper as being a bent on the truth, most (unfortunately not all) tend to read things with a certain amount of sceptisism.