Licensing fees to increase?

[** Pending Removal **]

Robert...you are right....and the only one who has picked up the point that this is a political change.

We have been fighting this for years on BSSC and keeping the costs relevant to what the law currently says...and that is that the cost should reflect the cost of the administration of issuing the certificates.

Not what they are trying to do now...which is linking the costs to the policing of all gun related issues...including crime....

And 'this' is what we have been fighting against.

ACPO would love to read and take comments from this page to show that the shooters ...really do not care.....it gives strength to their argument for political change........SO....be careful how you post peeps ...without knowing the true facts.....just saying.

 

[emvicne]

I am quite happy to pay whatever it costs to issue me with my licence. Taxpayers should not have to subsidise my hobby in anyway whatsoever. However I would like to see a breakdown of how the fee is calculated.

 

[RobertBeard]

Let's take dog ownership as an example!

There is no longer a dog licence but why shouldn't there be one to pay for all the dog wardens and the council workers who have to clear the **** up from those irresponsible owners who don't do it!

As a target shooter I am very conscious of all the pensioners who like to have a plink every week down at the club with their old BSA, Vickers or Anschutz.  This is going to bring a lot of those old boys to the end of their shooting hobby and that's not right!

It does not cost the best part of £200 to issue a licence.  Most of this cost is what parliament have added on in terms of bureaucracy to control gun ownership!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I am quite happy to pay whatever it costs to issue me with my licence. Taxpayers should not have to subsidise my hobby in anyway whatsoever. However I would like to see a breakdown of how the fee is calculated.

Hi Emma....the point is that they are no longer wanting to put the costs to the shooters of what it costs to issue the licence. They want to change the law (political change) to make us pay for gun related policing. Over the years that will start to get very expensive and restrictive for a lot of shooters. 

Thin edge of the wedge.

 

[emvicne]

When was the cost of producing licences last examined, Nicola I'm sure you will know the answer to this?    And when you say gun related policing, sorry but I'm not quite sure what that covers - taking politics out of the equation should shooters not be responsible for the cost of their sport?  I'm really not looking for a political debate, but just some clarification please as I think i'm missing the point.

As for Roberts point of pensioners being priced out of their hobby, I agree, that's not acceptable. I hope whatever happens there is a concession for pensioners. 

 

[RobertBeard]

As to what we might do in reaction to this early day motion then I would suggest that you immediately write to your MP and to any Shooting Organisations to which you belong to protest at this along the lines of my reaction above and urge them to fight against this!

If there is no protest then they will think that we are all filthy rich grouse shooters with more money than sense and able to pay anything that they choose to levy!

Let's not beat about the bush here!

The rural way of life is ever under threat from the NIMBY's who move out into the country and try to curtail rural pursuits such as hunting, shooting and fishing to suit their political and PC agenda.

 

[RobertBeard]

Let's take dog ownership as an example!

There is no longer a dog licence but why shouldn't there be one to pay for all the dog wardens and the council workers who have to clear the **** up from those irresponsible owners who don't do it!

As a target shooter I am very conscious of all the pensioners who like to have a plink every week down at the club with their old BSA, Vickers or Anschutz.  This is going to bring a lot of those old boys to the end of their shooting hobby and that's not right!

It does not cost the best part of £200 to issue a licence.  Most of this cost is what parliament have added on in terms of bureaucracy to control gun ownership!

Why should we have to shoulder the burden of the policing of unlicensed gun ownership - the criminal element for which we are in no way responsible making it necessary to spend millions to try and discover those arms being imported illegally, police activities devoted to trying to prosecute and confiscate unlicensed and illegal guns.

The absolute majority of gun crime stems from unlicensed guns imported illegally and we should not have to bear any of that cost! 

 

[RobertBeard]

I am now on my second glass of sherry and livid at hearing about this latest attack on shooting sports.

Perhaps, as an alternative to the cost of licensing there should be a new tax on the cost of shells, guns, ammo and anything directly related to shooting so that those who can best afford it pay most according to use!

Perhaps some of you would change your minds then!

 

[Richard59]

On the quote shown there does not appear to be any / many facts to support the suggested rises shown / allow a counter

does the £17,000,000 refer to a yearly LOSS of the loss over the 5 year cycle of the SGC? , if the former thats a whopping £85,000,000 loss over income of how many SGC's at £50.00 each, also it fails to note how many SGC's are in circulation, the figure of £196.00 suggests less than 500,000, still a large number of ADULTS, somewhere the sabre rattler needs a reminder / to bear in mind that almost all are voters, and a sore electorate etc, well this one would be.

Like most if and I know this is a very BIG if someone in / within this had the figures and they were published / explained rather than spewed out in the manner in which it has then some common sense would prevail and an agreed / acceptable fee could be set. In its present form, to me, the quote is yet another edict thats poorly / half thought through.

I would add also that the current SCG, complete with photograph and despite needing a co-signatory, no doubt a full background check (as much as is currently legal) a home visit from a firearms officer before circulation is NOT universally recognised as a form of identification!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

When was the cost of producing licences last examined, Nicola I'm sure you will know the answer to this?    And when you say gun related policing, sorry but I'm not quite sure what that covers - taking politics out of the equation should shooters not be responsible for the cost of their sport?  I'm really not looking for a political debate, but just some clarification please as I think i'm missing the point.

As for Roberts point of pensioners being priced out of their hobby, I agree, that's not acceptable. I hope whatever happens there is a concession for pensioners. 

Hi Emma....this has been on going for years. They have always been trying to up the costs. It is not about us paying for what the admin costs are...because we already do that. This is a whole different game that has been resisted for years...thanks to the hard work of the BSSC. Most shooters know nothing about their work. Gun related policing is everything that comes up with the name 'gun' in the title. It is nothing at all to do with costings for a shotgun certificated or RFD or FAC.  Hope that helps.

 

[Finners]

In the words of Jesse J .......... it's not about the money, money money!! 

But it is a political precedence, as an example the football clubs are required to pay the cost of the policing around their grounds. That's what we are talking about. 

Few of us can really object to a more realistic charge, it's true that £50 is not a high charge for 5 years and who knows, £200 may well be more realistic, but that's not the point.  

The real issue here is the potential for us to be treated as though we are a "problem with a cost" and that it's OK to get us to pay the full cost of an overly bureaucratic and ridiculously onerous process.

It's possibly OK that the Police charge for peace keeping around footy grounds. But we as a group are vetted and acknowledged as law abiding in order to get a Firearms Cert. 

Do the Police contra charge other law abiding groups for the cost of policing?   

 

[Jan Powell]

£196 is certainly a very significant increase but, knowing how much work that goes into the licensing process, is not unreasonable.

 

[Gee]

Have not heard anything from BASC regarding this matter, will let them fight it for me and wait for the email to sign their petition etc.... thats why I joined and what I pay them for.

I know most of you may not be members of such an organisation, as your shooting may just be clays but they have a fair bit of clout when it comes to things like this.

Dont forget there will be a knock-on effect throughout the industry which will affect more than just the people who pull the trigger.

 

[WelshKen]

It's another nail in the coffin for those already struggling with the cost of the sport that they love.

I've gone down from shooting 5000 targets a year to less than 2000, purely because of the ever rising costs.

It's so easy for those who are financially comfortable to say that they'd pay whatever it costs, and that it's far too cheap at £50.

Some will undoubtably say that people like me should find a cheaper hobby and leave shooting to those who can afford it.

But could grounds survive without the grass root shooters who visit them once a month, I doubt it?

I love this sport, but have no idea how long I can carry on the way things are going.

 

[ips]

Good point ken

 

[emvicne]

It's another nail in the coffin for those already struggling with the cost of the sport that they love.

I've gone down from shooting 5000 targets a year to less than 2000, purely because of the ever rising costs.

It's so easy for those who are financially comfortable to say that they'd pay whatever it costs, and that it's far too cheap at £50.

Some will undoubtably say that people like me should find a cheaper hobby and leave shooting to those who can afford it.

But could grounds survive without the grass root shooters who visit them once a month, I doubt it?

I love this sport, but have no idea how long I can carry on the way things are going.

Can I just clarify that's not the point i'm making.... but I do think shooters should cover the true cost of their licence fee.  It shouldn't be anybody else's responsibility. 

But even if the cost did go to the price that's being suggested, over five years, per year its still less than 250 cartridges!   I can't see anyone would have to give up a hobby based on that calculation, surely?  

 

[Jay]

The departmental cost of licensing is not a strong enough argument. An increase in line with inflation is fair enough, but they are quoting chump change in comparison to their spend on high end cars for the krispy kreme and coffee brigade, and the limos that ferry their top brass around, and don't get me started on those pointless commissioners.

One could argue the point that they trial the vehicles and need reliable vehicles, but modern manufacturing methods in the auto industry mean that the cheaper marques are producing good reliable vehicles. In fact some of the asian manufacturers give longer warranties (10 Years) than the German makes. I doubt the Police will ditch their Jags and Range Rovers for Hyundais though.  

When Government starts to have the clear out (like they promised) of all those unnecessary departments and made up jobs for the boys then they'll save us Billions but they're not going to do that. 

 

[Nimbusgb]

Ok if it costs that much to process an application why not make it £200 but please explain the 5 year limitation. Why not 10 years? The drivers licence lasts 10 years ( ridiculous in my book but that's another story ) so why can't my SGC last for the same time?

 

[RobertBeard]

As fast as they shed civil service employees and their salaries and on-costs they are re-engaging them in self-employed consultancy roles after they have had a nice big redundancy pay out!

 

[Jay]

It does not bother me either....i live to shoot.....and therefore pay what ever it costs......even if it was £1000 each time.....but as I explained before on previous threads....a cost change is not the point.....it is a political principle being changed....they are wanting to link it to the cost of policing firearms issues (big open circle) and not as it is now.....cost related to time taken to process the licence.

You should see how much they were proposing that the RFD was going up to.

It is like giving an open cheque when you change (in Law) the political principle on the cost charging.

It is all academic really because it will happen sooner or later. Glad to see people relaxed about it.

All of the various bodies that have anything to do with shooting no matter how remote need to start thinking about pooling some resources. I'd quite happily pay a small levy at every shoot as long as it went to a central war chest for fighting these issues when the time comes...because it will. I know we're sometimes dismissive of EDMs, but in this case it's a strong combat indicator that trouble is brewing....slowly slowly catchy monkey