Lifting the head

[Knipan]

All.

I would like some tips and input from you how to solve my biggest issue at the moment.

I've realized that I quite often lift my head and loose contact with the comb. Even though I'm avare of this and try to think about it, it happens all to often...

Anybody have any tips how to cure this other than duct tape?

Thanks!

 

[Hamster]

Address the cause, people lift their head when they can't see the target clearly and/or the temptation to see the result of the shot. It's almost always because the comb is too low hence why most experienced shooters avoid pancake flat rib sight pictures. The best way to be sure though is to spend time with a decent coach in your area. 

 

[Salopian]

I have found the best cure is to shoot with a twenty pound note trapped between your cheek and the comb.

If you lift your head and the note falls away , pick it up and donate it to the air ambulance.

I cured Darkside of this fault by using a penny.

 

[Sian]

I can only tell you what I did as I was a terrible head lifter - adjustable comb fitted on my gun and therefore my comb raised.  I was also guilty of wanting to see the clay break but the main reason was seeing the target better in flight.

 

[Knipan]

Thanks for the input.

I have an adjustable comb fitted, and set up so I float the clay on the bead, so I don't think it's due to not seeing the target.

I belive my issue is a combination of old habit due to low comb earlier, but also I'm almost rushed to see if it's hit or miss 

So I need a good way to train my self not lifting my head. So please keep the tips comming. 

 

[ehb102]

It can just be a bad habit. I had to learn to look with my eyes, not with my nose.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Focus purely on the target! If you do that you will be seeing the target all the time and not need to lift your head from the stock at all. I think that at times shooters think they are focused on the target when in fact the are getting a lot of their barrels in the picture and lift their head to see the target just when they are about to shoot the target.

edit  I am also pretty sure head lifting is the most common cause of a missed target... so you are not alone!

 

[Skeetfreak]

Thanks for the input.

I have an adjustable comb fitted, and set up so I float the clay on the bead, so I don't think it's due to not seeing the target.

So I need a good way to train my self not lifting my head. So please keep the tips comming. 

Knipan,

First questions I would ask are:-

Is who set the comb height up and under what circumstances?

Is there any correlation between a particular target type and the head lifting?

Does it only happen when swinging one way or the other?

How is your gun mount?

Have you patterned the gun?

so why these questions....

Simple really - under the pressure of competition shooting (at whatever level) you MAY have the affects of adrenaline causing you to crunch down on the comb harder meaning you flatten the gun out. Its very different setting a gun up in a relaxed atmosphere in a workshop / building as opposed to on the range in competition / actually trying to break targets.

In the above scenario its totally possible that as you tighten down you may be causing an issue on a particular target type / a particular direction of flight (eg: left to right low crossers)

The reason for asking about gun mount is two fold really - gun up / gun down. Hold point and set up when addressing the target prior to call. You may actually be starting out by obstructing your view of the target in set up and may link to the above sentence. Also its entirely possible to have your comb up so you think under relaxed circumstances you are good height but you have poor / inconsistent gun mount which means sometimes you could loose sight of targets. You could also be loosing sight of the target due to poor turn / move in the shot meaning the PLANE of your swing is moving up or down and obstructing the view of certain shots.

Patterning the gun can and will show some of these errors up providing you use the board correctly and not just stand there rifling shots straight into a pattern plate not actually mimicking what you do when actually breaking targets.

Your first reply was the correct one - get a GOOD coach who knows how to diagnose problems with all the above and can help guide you in the right direction.

As for tips....

The £20 note drill works well - have used / seen this method used quite a bit.

The other drill I do in practice a lot (especially pre-season) is I play house to house on the skeet field. So I set up for a SINGLE high house target (say high 3) and I call pull - target comes out and I make the shot - then my SOLE aim of the drill is to keep the gun swinging smoothly and my cheek firm but consistent pressure on the comb till my barrel touches the low house. This results in a two fold good training - keeping the gun swinging smoothly and also staying in the gun till the shot is complete.

You can reverse this and do the same on the low targets. Then move stations to give differing target presentations. If practicing straight away targets (L7 / H1) then I simply perform a count after the shot was made - eg:- low 7 make the shot and break the target but then count to 5 while staying in the gun and focussing on the broken bits of clay.

 

[ips]

I am not convinced the cause is down to flat comb. My guns are very flat that's how I like them and I don't lift my head. Its very simple Imo and exactly as ehb said, its just a bad habit and the cure is simple. Don't do it.

shoot a round of whatever on your own and DO NOT lift your head you may miss some targets because your focus is on maintaining comb contact but that does not matter the purpose of the exercise is to not lift your head, after the shot is taken maintain contact and maintain the gun swing for two seconds. You may need two or three sessions but this will cure it. Just remember that hitting targets is not the goal during these sessions it is a specific exercise for a specific reason and must be treated as such. Muscle memory is suprisingy quick to establish then your back to hitting targets.

edit

just read skeets post in full, we are on similar thinking

 

[FreeShot]

You may try to do some indoor gun mounting and dry firing in dark room or with eyes closed to feel and stay with the gun prior to that as well.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I know this will sound strange but ........................

if you emphasize a firm grip with the trigger hand that will force you, even tho it may not be obvious, to drive the gun with that hand and for me makes staying in the gun easier.  More of a package as it were.  YMMV

 

[DKGibbs]

I suffered with head lifting but mainly  on slow floating crow targets or any other very slow target.

I went out and shot with my partner videoing me to see how bad the issue was, and I lifted my head a good inch or more.

My comb is already set pretty high, I see a lot of rib so it wasn't that.

I struggled to do anything to rectify the issue for sometime to be honest! But I changed ammo due to a sponsorship and the cartridges I use now are very soft on the shoulder and my head lifting / flinch has completely gone.

I used to use Dark Storm Compertition and I honestly believe it was them which do have some serious recoil.

It's not until you change that you realise the effects of recoil!

After realising recoil could be the issue, I shot a lot of practice with 21g cartridges which obviously have no recoil and I'm as good as cured.

Might be worth trying some softer ammo for a while

 

[Knipan]

Once again, Thanks for all input and training suggestions!

Knipan,

First questions I would ask are:-

Is who set the comb height up and under what circumstances?

Is there any correlation between a particular target type and the head lifting?

Does it only happen when swinging one way or the other?

How is your gun mount?

Have you patterned the gun?

so why these questions....

Simple really - under the pressure of competition shooting (at whatever level) you MAY have the affects of adrenaline causing you to crunch down on the comb harder meaning you flatten the gun out. Its very different setting a gun up in a relaxed atmosphere in a workshop / building as opposed to on the range in competition / actually trying to break targets.

In the above scenario its totally possible that as you tighten down you may be causing an issue on a particular target type / a particular direction of flight (eg: left to right low crossers)

The reason for asking about gun mount is two fold really - gun up / gun down. Hold point and set up when addressing the target prior to call. You may actually be starting out by obstructing your view of the target in set up and may link to the above sentence. Also its entirely possible to have your comb up so you think under relaxed circumstances you are good height but you have poor / inconsistent gun mount which means sometimes you could loose sight of targets. You could also be loosing sight of the target due to poor turn / move in the shot meaning the PLANE of your swing is moving up or down and obstructing the view of certain shots.

Patterning the gun can and will show some of these errors up providing you use the board correctly and not just stand there rifling shots straight into a pattern plate not actually mimicking what you do when actually breaking targets.

Your first reply was the correct one - get a GOOD coach who knows how to diagnose problems with all the above and can help guide you in the right direction.

As for tips....

The £20 note drill works well - have used / seen this method used quite a bit.

The other drill I do in practice a lot (especially pre-season) is I play house to house on the skeet field. So I set up for a SINGLE high house target (say high 3) and I call pull - target comes out and I make the shot - then my SOLE aim of the drill is to keep the gun swinging smoothly and my cheek firm but consistent pressure on the comb till my barrel touches the low house. This results in a two fold good training - keeping the gun swinging smoothly and also staying in the gun till the shot is complete.

You can reverse this and do the same on the low targets. Then move stations to give differing target presentations. If practicing straight away targets (L7 / H1) then I simply perform a count after the shot was made - eg:- low 7 make the shot and break the target but then count to 5 while staying in the gun and focussing on the broken bits of clay.

Skeetfreak, fantastic response!

I've set the comb by the patterning board, trying to be consistent with gun mountband cheek preassure. Also shot crossers to verify POI. My feeling is that I do it on all types of tagets, but more often on going away and targest higher up. No difference in L-R or other way. My mount is fairly consistant. I shoot gun down at all times. 

I see your point in difference depending on situation, and theres a valid point to this, I belive that it happens more often on the second clay in a pair. Could the fact that I'm not consistant in my pick up point be a factor?

I will book a coach going forward, and befor this I'm invited to shoot with an most experienced shooter, more focusing on the flow of the shot, i.e. focus, pick up and kill points.

will absolutly try the suggested drills.

Many thanks!

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I suffered with head lifting but mainly  on slow floating crow targets or any other very slow target.

I went out and shot with my partner videoing me to see how bad the issue was, and I lifted my head a good inch or more.

My comb is already set pretty high, I see a lot of rib so it wasn't that.

I struggled to do anything to rectify the issue for sometime to be honest! But I changed ammo due to a sponsorship and the cartridges I use now are very soft on the shoulder and my head lifting / flinch has completely gone.

I used to use Dark Storm Compertition and I honestly believe it was them which do have some serious recoil.

It's not until you change that you realise the effects of recoil!

After realising recoil could be the issue, I shot a lot of practice with 21g cartridges which obviously have no recoil and I'm as good as cured.

Might be worth trying some softer ammo for a while

I'm glad someone that has been in the game a while has said this.

I had a lesson this week and this was picked up with me. Using cheap Superfasts seems to have given me a very slight recoil flinch which I hadn't even realised. 

I've now picked up 750 Hull Sporting 100 which are silky smooth and I have a 3mm gel pad on its way (when the royal mail decide to sort their act out...) which will sit on the stock to cushion my cheek.

I want to make sure it goes away before it becomes a real issue!

 

[Paul120]

I had a lesson this week and this was picked up with me. Using cheap Superfasts seems to have given me a very slight recoil flinch which I hadn't even realised. 

Really??

Don't take this the wrong way  If superfasts are giving you a flinch and your not of very slight build of on the frail side I'd be looking at gun fit or gunmount issues.

Superfasts aren't  36g Fitasc loads and prople shot loads of them with little issues when they could.. Painful on the wallet though. 

 

[ips]

agreed, I find superfast to be soft

 

[balltrap]

agreed, I find superfast to be soft

nope super fast are sh*t you can only compare them to a wet fart  :mellow:

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I can't say I have found them to be uncomfortable; hence shooting thousands of them.

However, It can't hurt to try some smoother ones and see if it makes a difference. 

To quote Hull's website...

"Firm recoil, reliably cycles semi autos. Limited specification keeps the price right on target."

Versus the comments for Sporting 100's

"Attain the perfect score with this competitively priced shell boasting minimum recoil."

 

[ips]

nope super fast are sh*t you can only compare them to a wet fart  :mellow:

says the man who shot an ABT straight when I gave him a box ?