Need some help please!

[Andrew Pittam]

Hi all, not really posted much on here, but keep an interest in the threads so appologies if im asking too much! (i hope i have posed this in the correct section, if not, can a mod please move it appropriately)

Having had my meeting with the firearms officer yesterday, rightly or wrongly, he has approved my application for a shotgun certificate on one previso........i need a reference from a current license holder to say i understand the basics of shotgun handling and safety.

I have shot many many times in the past, both clays and live quarry, but have never held my own certificate, the licensing officer will not accept a previous shooting acquaintance as a referance, as i "may have forgotten how to behave safetly since i last shot".

So, what im trying to ask......Is there anyone going clay shooting tomorrow (sunday 18th Nov) who would be happy for me to join them for a round, allow me to shoot their gun; and if they believe i am capable of using said weapon safetly, act as a referee for me. I would have prefered not to have to ask this, but slightly resent the idea of having to pay £60+ for a safety leason at a shooting school when i believe i am fully competent of demonstarating such and could enjoy a round of clays at the same time!

I live in leeds, but i have my own transport and would be willing to give someone a lift also if needed, i am fully able to pay my own way obviously.

If someone would be happy for me to join them, i will openly state here, that if after watching me shoot, they are not happy that i am safe, i wont put any pressure on them to vouch for me.

Thanks for reading this, and i hope someone from the leeds / yorkshire area may be able to help me out (ps, certain members from here may have met me in the past on the paintball fields, so hi if you know me!)

 

[maffs]

Hi Andrew,

I am not aware of this condition being part of any 'act' although I'm guess the licensing officer is covering his/her back. Sometimes just easier to relent, build bridges and have a good relationship with them as you never know when you'll need them in the future

Did you bring up your history with using a shotgun, as i find it strange?

When i had my meeting some years ago i mentioned that i'd had a few lessons and this is what got me 'hooked'. No condition was set.

If you're around North East Wales I'd be happy to meet up and do whats needed etc. but im guessing there will be plenty of people closer to you offering to help.

Best of luck,

Chris

 

[Maxum]

Have a lesson. Have some fun Let them state how safe you are on a letterhead from the shooting school. Problem solved.

 

[SteveK]

If you can't find anyone to "mentor" you, then go for a lesson. I do appreciate that a lesson can be expensive - but it means the difference between getting your SGC or not, then you have to do what needs to be done.

I received my SGC last week and during my home visit, the FEO did ask what experience I had. Luckily, my instructor (who knew the FEO anyway) told me to keep a log. So anything connected with shooting was listed including lessons, shooting under section 11 at the instructors shooting ground and even visits to other shooting grounds/gun dealers etc just to show that we were genuinly interested. Our FEO was really chuffed with this.

Also, as well as being taught safety and handling, the instructor may also help with any issues that you may have with your shooting.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

They (the police) are not allowed to do this...!!!!

It is not in the Firearms Act. Suggest you speak to Bill Harriman at Basc or contact BSSC. There is no provision for ensuring that the person who 'passes' you....knows what they are doing anyway. This is the police overstepping what is in the letter of the Law. My email is on my profile page. Email me if you need the contact numbers.

This sort of thing should be resisted strongly...it is the thin edge of the wedge.

 

[Andrew Pittam]

Hi all, thanks for taking the time out to reply, and thanks Nicola for making clear what i was fairly sure i knew to be the case!!

Anyway, to cut a long story short and indeed, not wanting to wind the firearms office up, i have done as i said i would, and went to a local clay shoot this morning. having introduced myself to a few of the old boys and explained my predicament, they took me under their wing so to speak and let me have a round with them. The chairman of the club let me shoot his gun (which i dont think fitted me very well but thats by the by) and subsequently gave me his contact details and said he would be happy to speak with the licensing officer.

I havent shot a clay for at least 5 years but really enjoyed it again........i shot 23 out of 50, which i was fairly happy with given unfamiliar surroundings, people and using someone elses gun (the old boy i shot with who had been shooting at the club for 25 years, shot 27, so i was quite happy with that.)

so hopefully, all being well, i should get my certificate signed off very soon!

Thanks Everyone

PS, the licensing officer also told be that i needed to get a combination locking key safe as well!!!! im pretty sure that there is absolutly no requirement for that either (but he also said he wouldnt be visiting me again either, so i may or may not do that straight away.......they are only £15, so will probably get one when i get my first shotgun)

 

[** Pending Removal **]

No that is not part of the Act either. Will you PM me with the details if you do not want to challenge it and I will forward the details for you to the right people. Looks like the officer needs re-training on the Act itself.

 

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

PS, the licensing officer also told be that i needed to get a combination locking key safe as well!!!! im pretty sure that there is absolutly no requirement for that either (but he also said he wouldnt be visiting me again either, so i may or may not do that straight away.......they are only £15, so will probably get one when i get my first shotgun)

Locks must conform to HELA Tech Doc 26/5.

Here's the Home Office's info on everything you need to know about the law on gun safes and cabinets - and their locking systems.

Good luck.

 

[Andrew Pittam]

I have a good gun safe (vault locking) so thats not the issue, the point was securing the keys to said cabinet so the wife had no chance of getting access to them.......

Nicola, thanks for your support, im happy to forward details to you, but i hope you understand, i would like to get my ticket first.

Locks must conform to HELA Tech Doc 26/5.

Here's the Home Office's info on everything you need to know about the law on gun safes and cabinets - and their locking systems.

Good luck.

 

[Salopian]

This information about the conduct of FLO's is infuriating.

The various forces appear to make the law as go along, which is totally illegal.

Every new applicant is nervous and only wants to comply with the Law and get their certificate granted without hassle.

I suggest that it would be a very good idea for the CPSA to offer 'Guidance to applying for a Shotgun Certificate'. A step by step guide as to the law requirements for acquiring a certificate.

For instance, if you just want a certificate to buy ammunition, but not to buy a gun, why do you need a cabinet?

If you have secure premises with secure doors and windows and an alarm, why do you need a cabinet? If you are a widower, why do you need to secure the keys to a cabinet to stop access by the wife?

No the FLO's are overstepping the mark.

If we are not careful they will set a precedent that we will all have to comply with.

Be polite, be courteous, but be firm.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I have a good gun safe (vault locking) so thats not the issue, the point was securing the keys to said cabinet so the wife had no chance of getting access to them.......

Nicola, thanks for your support, im happy to forward details to you, but i hope you understand, i would like to get my ticket first.

There is absolutely no need for a safe for locking keys in with a combination lock....they are being bloody ridiculous. Jobs worth who obviously does not know the Act.

Please feel free to send me chapter and verse if you will, after you get your licence if that makes you more comfortable, including the name of the person who has demanded these things. I will then make sure it gets to the right people.

 

[Mike]

Cumbria sacked a couple of muppets who overstepped the mark when interviewing applicants, to be honest I would give the Firearms Licensing Officer a call and clarify just what is going on.

As others have said they are making it up as they go along, what are they to ask for next?

 

[Westward]

Don't forget everyone... We now have PCCs (which we all voted for didn't we?????). They are there to CONTROL the Chief Constables and they have the power to fire them.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Don't forget everyone... We now have PCCs (which we all voted for didn't we?????). They are there to CONTROL the Chief Constables and they have the power to fire them.

L. O. L. And with a 'massive' mandate L. O. L.

 

[maffs]

It makes me laugh that there is so much variance on the application of approving Shotgun Licenses and Firearms Certificates between forces and obviously the numb-ties that exist in the system.

As its been said, give you firearms team a ring and ask for clarity on the issues you've mentioned. Dont forget to get names of the people that you've spoken to on paper with time and date info.

Best of luck,

 

[Westward]

Over the last 30 years or so the Chief Officers and especially the ACPO have been steadily acquiring more powers for the Police to decide what they do, and more particularly what they don't do. The underlying reason people feel less safe is not because of an increase in actual or visible crime but a decrease in visible police when we're always being told that there are thousands more officers. Heaven knows where all these extra officers are; it's for certain they aren't out on the streets where people want them. To address this the ACPO recommended that the public would feel safer and more reassured if the officers in cars used their sirens more. So there you have it: Police sirens going off all day long makes people feel safer. Where do they find these people?

Anyone who keeps sporting guns at home needs to be aware of who their PCC is and how to contact them because they have real teeth. Remember, all governments are terrified of upsetting the police and until now the public has been powerless.

Police Commissioners have been a huge success in the USA and hopefully ours will be able to start reigning in the police so that those of us who are law abiding citizens can begin to feel again that the boys in blue actually work for us not against us.

 

[Salopian]

Inefficiency is actually the code followed by most Police Forces today.

A factual incident.

My local clay club had their traps stolen.

A member discovered the theft and telephoned the local Police. One and half hours later the Police arrive, assess the situation and inform him it is out of their County. Telephone the other County force and they leave.

He telephones the adjacent County Police. Two and a half hours later they arrive and tell him 'No' it's not us, it's the other forces area. They go away.

Now the member has been there five hours and nothing has been done, so he rings 999 and reports a gun has been stolen, ten minutes later both forces turn up 'Where was the gun stolen from'? they ask.

Oh! sorry my mistake I have just 'phoned the secretary, he has it, it isn't stolen. But while your both here can we have a look for the stolen traps?

Two days later I hear about this fiasco and ask the secretary can I advertise the theft on the different clay shooting forums? " Yes of course, please do." I do. One hour later I get a call from Leamington Spa. Caller says " I think I have found your traps for sale on Ebay in Wolverhampton." I check the Ebay site, yes sure enough they are the traps.

I arrange to view them and go to Wolverhampton. Get the sellers description, address, telephone numbers and photograph him standing by a trap and photograph his BMW and it's number plate. Pass all the information to the officer dealing with the case. Three days later I get a call asking if it would be okay for an officer to ring me at home. Yes. Two days later I get a call to discuss where I got my information from, I asked if they had arrested the thief? 'No not yet, trying to get a car and go over to Wolverhampton to view the stolen goods.'

Eleven days later the Ebay sale ends. I have heard that the thief has been interviewed and charges MAY be made dependant on the CPS. Some of the traps are now in Scotland and the clay club have to go to Scotland to recover them.

We are currently trying to find two members who have the time and a van plus the fuel to drive to Scotland to recover traps which were found in Wolverhampton.

Moral of this Tale

So please make sure your traps are secure, the keys to your container are secured in a combination locked safe or better still a Bank security deposit box. That there is no Oxy / Acetelene cutting equipment or Stihl Saws available in neighbouring Counties.

 

[Hawkeye]

I phoned the cops on a sunday morning to report that someone had drilled a hole in 2 of my car tyres. 2 of em turned up here last thursday, one asked ' how do you know they were drill holes?'

 

[Andrew Pittam]

Well peeps, got my certificate through the post today, so alls well that ends well........nicola, may well drop you a message soon with the info you were after!