New gun.
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Jan Powell
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Nice. Don't forget to drop Alan an email, he'll tell you its history.
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Worcs
Well-known member
Don't know if your after some chokes but I just saw these for sale on pigeon watch: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/352740-krieghoff-chokes/
Thanks. Good price to
Thanks, got intouch with Alan and the gun is 6 yrs old but not been serviced yet. I'll have to save for that :wink:
So according to Alan Rhone's records the gun is six years old and has not been serviced.
Have you taken into account that the gun may not have been used much at all ? Possibly not shot 100 cartridges?
Why would it require servicing if it functions correctly ?
What is done at a service? Change the oil and filters ? Seriously my gun has fired about 25K cartridges since I bought it and its never been serviced and I bought it second hand ... damn I forgot to ask if it had been serviced prior to the sale. I am going to Lonato though and I hear that Perazzi do a service from a mobile workshop might get it done then.
jwpzx9r,
Exactly correct , get it serviced if it starts to malfunction or take an opportunity when at a big shoot to get it looked over by a factory trained craftsman.
I have a 1960 Browning that had a pitted bottom firing pin early on (3months old) it still works perfectly now without having been changed .
I have well used Miroku's that have never had a spring or pin changed and still function perfectly well.
Exactly correct , get it serviced if it starts to malfunction or take an opportunity when at a big shoot to get it looked over by a factory trained craftsman.
I have a 1960 Browning that had a pitted bottom firing pin early on (3months old) it still works perfectly now without having been changed .
I have well used Miroku's that have never had a spring or pin changed and still function perfectly well.
Can't help but wonder if it started to malfunction might that be down to lack of servicing
It would appear that Guns are different to Cars & Bikes appart from the obvious .
Will Hewland
Well-known member
When I started shooting, the lack of maintenance needed by a gun actually troubled me. I was so used to frequent maintenance of items in motorsport. Took me ages to change my mind set to be comfortable having a gun looked at every 50,000 cartridges or so. Although I am a frequent and picky cleaner, so look the gun over all the time.
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First one has to define what constitutes a service before it can be decided whether or not it is just maintenance or not. I clean my gun sparingly to be honest I do always wipe the gun down after every use with an oily rag and if the gun is not going to be used for more that two weeks I give the barrels a wipe through with some bore cleaner. Servicing, to me at least, indicates more than just maintaining the gun and I cannot think what you would want to do to a gun if it was not giving you problems other than make sure it is kept free of rust and filth. I mean if it was preventative maintenance such as changing springs etc one needs to ask why? A new spring can break just as easily as an old one there are no rules when it comes to metals fracturing other than of course the fact that it has reached it breaking point. It is like having a new timing belt put on your car engine you think the new one is going to be more likely not to break but there are no guarantees ... and I do not think any garage would give you one. What is really required is a thorough inspection of the belt already fitted to the engine and replacement of the belt based on that. In the end though the cost of that work is almost as much as fitting a new one ... so that is what they do ... but if two weeks later that belt broke I strongly suspect the garage owner who fitted it would say not my problem.
schmokinn
Well-known member
As a mechanic i would say your timing belt analogy is totally incorrect,they start to wear and deteriorate from the moment they are fitted.
They are mainly stressed by starting the engine hence some vans come with 2 different intervals depending on if they are stop start or distance Peugeot 1.9d 80000km or 120000km.
I have on quite a few occasions seen timing belts break within a few thousand of there recommended interval,manufacturers stress test engines specifically for working out the likely life of such parts
Also metals suffer from fatigue so an older spring is much more likely to break than a newer one,just simple physics.
I worked for quite a few years in metallurgy ... if only your faith in new pieces of metal was actually fact. A new or replacement spring can break just as easily as the one that is already fitted... of course you hope that the fact that it is new in some way negates any chance that there is a fault already in the spring you don't know about but unfortunately unless you test it to destruction you will never know and the very act of testing makes the spring unusable.
And do you offer a guarantee the new belt will not break? ... no of course you don't. I know of numerous cases where a timing belt has failed within the manufacturers permitted mileage for the vehicle but where the vehicle was out with the manufacturers warranty period and nothing at all has been forthcoming for the manufacturer to the owner, in fact my neighbour's Renault Scenic did just that ... did Renault rush to give him some help him cover the cost of the repair... did they F. I have known of people who have run an engine for years without problem and others who have had the same type of vehicle and have a valve spring break if only things were as black and white as you suggest.
And do you offer a guarantee the new belt will not break? ... no of course you don't. I know of numerous cases where a timing belt has failed within the manufacturers permitted mileage for the vehicle but where the vehicle was out with the manufacturers warranty period and nothing at all has been forthcoming for the manufacturer to the owner, in fact my neighbour's Renault Scenic did just that ... did Renault rush to give him some help him cover the cost of the repair... did they F. I have known of people who have run an engine for years without problem and others who have had the same type of vehicle and have a valve spring break if only things were as black and white as you suggest.
A quick search found many instances where some sort of service is a recommended part of the Guns life.
One i found below, I realise being in the trade they might be after some work but it still makes sense what they say.
Link.....
http://www.castlegunmakers.co.uk/gun-repairs/shotgun-servicing-and-rifle-servicing.html
Having your gun serviced once a year is overlooked by many who feel it is unnecessary and unduly costly. However most of us would never go a year without having our car serviced and see it as well spent preventative medicine. It is the same with your shotgun or rifle – which may even be worth more than your car and expected to last longer!
Shotguns and rifles contain metal parts which are often under stress and are sometimes used in wet conditions. Regular good cleaning, lubrication and fault diagnosis are essential to preserve good wood to metal fit and precise operation. Shotgun servicing can identify weak, worn or loose parts that may cause your gun to fail when you need it most – that special driven pheasant day when few of us have a spare gun!
Common problems only found when the gun is stripped down for a service can include:
One i found below, I realise being in the trade they might be after some work but it still makes sense what they say.
Link.....
http://www.castlegunmakers.co.uk/gun-repairs/shotgun-servicing-and-rifle-servicing.html
Having your gun serviced once a year is overlooked by many who feel it is unnecessary and unduly costly. However most of us would never go a year without having our car serviced and see it as well spent preventative medicine. It is the same with your shotgun or rifle – which may even be worth more than your car and expected to last longer!
Shotguns and rifles contain metal parts which are often under stress and are sometimes used in wet conditions. Regular good cleaning, lubrication and fault diagnosis are essential to preserve good wood to metal fit and precise operation. Shotgun servicing can identify weak, worn or loose parts that may cause your gun to fail when you need it most – that special driven pheasant day when few of us have a spare gun!
Common problems only found when the gun is stripped down for a service can include:
- Loose bridge and hand pins that can later lead to a cracked stock
- Loose bridle pins that can lead to broken swivels or tumblers
- Dents in barrels that can cause stress leading to rivelling
- Mushroomed or worn strikers that can lead to misfires
- Water ingress that is causes rust to the mechanism
schmokinn
Well-known member
I did not suggest things were black and white at all...but the likelyhood of old failing more often than new is massive unless there is a fault.
If you had a cam belt fitted and it broke within weeks you would have good reason to go back because 99% certain it would have broken due to poor fitment (overtight or damaged in the fitment process) you must use a very poor standard of workshop if you do not expect their repairs to last.
No manufacturer rushes to give you anything but if you have had the vehicle serviced by them at the correct intervals most of the time they will pay for the repair or make a contribution...but you need to ask or you will get nothing.
If you have just had the oil changed regularly by joe on the corner you will have no right to recompense and rightly so.
Only last week i spoke to someone who was quoted 4 grand to have the timing chain on his 1 series BMW replaced,on querying the fact it should last longer they came back to him and told him it would be done FOC.
I work quite closely with Mercedes commercial workshops and they regularly contribute to repairs that are not strictly there responsibility and offer extended warranties on certain parts BUT you have to ask and make your case.
As for the metallurgy bit faults aside age is determined by cycles so testing to destruction means lots of cycles therefore it is older and more likely to break,so in effect you have proved yourself wrong.
If anybody on here has any real insight into metal fatigue i would likely think it is Will.
I think you are missing the point to be honest. Metal fatigue is not the only cause of failure of metal parts and springs etc. Manufacturing flaws have to be taken into account too and you can easily confuse the two. Any way the springs they drop into shotguns are by and large not of great quality but they do a job simply changing them does not mean they are going to do the job any better than the ones that were in the gun before, or that they would have lasted any longer, but it is an earner for the gunsmith. As to BMW they are no different to any other manufacturer of automotive products they still take the most cost effective way out ... just ask any poor 1200GS owner the quality of their product for cost is so poor how they get away with it is a mystery to all of us... nice bike to ride though... they are set on a pedestal they do not deserve to be honest. Extended warranty... you mean an insurance policy. I got one with my Honda 5 years for one cent! Don't worry though I, and every other Honda owner out there who has one, am paying a lot for it some where along the way :lol:
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