Newbie question about sharing a gun...

[Fred Flintstone]

Ok, as a newbie, I don’t know the ‘etiquette’ of the sport yet beyond safe gun handling etc.

Getting ahead of myself slightly... but lets suppose I want to take a non-SGC holder with me for some practice clays. I’m aware he/she could shoot with me as a cert holder, but what is the general acceptance on their use of a gun... should I have/take 2, to allow them their own to use for the session, or is it acceptable for us to both share 1 Gun?

I realise some clubs have loan guns, but guess each have their own rules about loaning a non-SGC accompanied with a cert holder who is not on a lesson or with an instructor.

If you only have 1 gun, what do you do when taking a friend along?

Not sure how this works, so would appreciate an insight!

TIA

 

[timps]

First you have to check the ground has a section 11(6) exemption to allow non certificate holders the ability to use a shotgun at a time and place approved for shooting at artificial targets by the Chief Officer of Police, not all grounds have this.

The section 11(6) exemption is issued by the Chief of police and it has recommended guidelines of issue, those guidelines of issue can vary from force to force and even ground to ground.

When a ground applies for an exemption, they state that they will comply with those guidelines before the exemption is issued and as the exemption is the grounds their additional rules could also apply.

I know some Police forces and/or grounds stipulate being supervised, by an authorised person from the ground staff and not just a mate with a certificate and that they also have to sign a notice that they are not a prohibited person.

I know a lot of people that just assume you can take a mate with you without checking first, but as they have been doing it for years and never had an issue they don't really care they are technically breaking the law and not actually covered by the exemption but I'd point out the legalities all the same.

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/what-we-do/licensing/firearms-licensing/section116-exemption-clay/

Regarding sharing the gun, it is perfectly acceptable to share one gun, in fact some grounds prefer it as the non-certificate holder only has the gun in his/her possession whilst shooting in the stand.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Thanks Timps... solid advice there and will certainly check with any ground first... I didn’t know that so learned something new today! 
Appreciate the answer on the ‘sharing’ of a gun. 

 

[Lloyd]

I read an article recently in one of the publications, which one I unfortunately cannot recollect, in it it stated that a gun may only be borrowed from the land owner and that turning up to shoot with a mate and borrowing a gun from them is illegal (sic) 

Could this be true? Is it perhaps unlawful? Or is it ok and the author is taking nonsense?

It would be good to have clarity on this for sure. It may mean there are a number of us taking out interested friends on a shoot and loaning them our guns isn’t allowed, perhaps jeopardising our own license.

It could be that some freelance instructors with guns to lend out, or demonstrate for the purpose of sale are falling foul of the law. Ignorance of the law isn’t a defence I’m told.

If you shoot with a school, then I suppose you will be borrowing from the landowner. Assumes the school owns the land and isn’t renting from a third party.

could be a can of worms

 

[Fred Flintstone]

I seem to remember seeing something similar, but I think that was more in relation to shooting on private land, rather than a clay ground?

i caveat that with; I am VERY new to all of this!!!

 

[ColinD]

I read an article recently in one of the publications, which one I unfortunately cannot recollect, in it it stated that a gun may only be borrowed from the land owner and that turning up to shoot with a mate and borrowing a gun from them is illegal (sic) 

Could this be true? Is it perhaps unlawful? Or is it ok and the author is taking nonsense?

It would be good to have clarity on this for sure. It may mean there are a number of us taking out interested friends on a shoot and loaning them our guns isn’t allowed, perhaps jeopardising our own license.

It could be that some freelance instructors with guns to lend out, or demonstrate for the purpose of sale are falling foul of the law. Ignorance of the law isn’t a defence I’m told.

If you shoot with a school, then I suppose you will be borrowing from the landowner. Assumes the school owns the land and isn’t renting from a third party.

could be a can of worms

Don't think your ever going to get clarity, as different shooting grounds and Police forces have different rules. Best to ask for clarification with the ground your using at the time to make sure.

One thing I can never understand with a SGC is there is no need to be a member of a shooting club/governing body to get one, unlike a FAC. The Club/Governing body part if only for the insurance aspect incase of a incident

 

[timps]

The section 11(6) exemption is written in the Firearms act so if a shooting ground has got one you are covered to shoot artificial targets (nothing else) as long as you are supervised by an authorised person.  An authorised person in regards to the firearms act is someone with a shotgun certificate, however as stated previously as it is the grounds exemption, they may insist that it is a member of staff.

The borrowing off a landowner is now covered in section 11A of the firearms act  and it has just been updated. It allows a non-certificate holder to borrow a shotgun (for live quarry and clay shooting) and use it in the presence of either the occupier of the land (they don't have to be the owner of the land just have the lease or shooting rights) or persons authorised by the occupier in writing.

Written permission is a new requirement and must be obtained prior to shooting, verbal permission is no longer allowed.

Therefore, an instructor or even you yourself with this written permission of the occupier can take a non-certificate holder round.

So, for clay shooting you either need a ground with a section 11(6) exemption or written permission from the occupier of the land. For any other shooting you need the written permission.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

... Think I’ll ask at the ground if/when ready, seems to be the safest bet?

 

[Freddypip]

I would also stress that many grounds will expect to to use one gun (per license holder etc) as that allows you to concentrate on looking after that gun when it is in the hands of the non-certificated person.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

I would also stress that many grounds will expect to to use one gun (per license holder etc) as that allows you to concentrate on looking after that gun when it is in the hands of the non-certificated person.

Thanks Freddy... I thought that would be the case, but then considered if ‘etiquette’ might suggest otherwise.