Noob Again - Lead
- Thread starter RussP
- Start date
Help Support Clay, Trap, Skeet Shooting Forum:
bordergun
Well-known member
rendrag64 Sounds good. Please don't hesitate to contact me if there is anything that needs clarification.
bordergun
Well-known member
Stiggers. The first version of the Unit Lead book was published in 2007 and there is a letter from a shooter called Mark Kiddie (now passed) saying, quote:- "congratulations on writing the definitive book on target leads." You can read the original letter here:- www.peteblakeley.com On the LESSONS drop down, please click on Testimonials, scroll down the page and you will find Mark Kiddie. Underneath, you will find some green text:- click here to read the letter. The book was an instant hit and as a result many shooters and coaches bought it.
Unfortunately, because it gave shooters a logical way to interpret the variables of moving targets based on trigonometry and logic, some coaches didn't like it. In other words, shooters were now very quickly building up their library of sight pictures in a few hours, not years. Some coaches would prefer you to take multiple lessons to swell their wallets. I personally don't think that's fair and that's why I give a money back guarantee on results. As you will see on my web. site, I am proud to be able to get a new shooter to break every target on a skeet field in about 2 hours and have a logical way to break interpret every target on a SC course in about another 5-6 hours. But unfortunately, there will still be many reading this that will doubt that.
If you are a very experienced shooter, you may have already built up your repertoire of sight pictures so the books may not help you as much as it would some who are less experienced. BUT, having said that, even the most experienced shooters struggle with a problem target on occasion and both the books are based on logic, not voodoo. They will give you a logical way to self-analyze why you missed and therefore you can correct on the next shot. The "Reading Targets" book shows actual bird barrel relationships taken with a barrel cam and it is selling on average 20 copies per month over here in the US.
Unfortunately, because it gave shooters a logical way to interpret the variables of moving targets based on trigonometry and logic, some coaches didn't like it. In other words, shooters were now very quickly building up their library of sight pictures in a few hours, not years. Some coaches would prefer you to take multiple lessons to swell their wallets. I personally don't think that's fair and that's why I give a money back guarantee on results. As you will see on my web. site, I am proud to be able to get a new shooter to break every target on a skeet field in about 2 hours and have a logical way to break interpret every target on a SC course in about another 5-6 hours. But unfortunately, there will still be many reading this that will doubt that.
If you are a very experienced shooter, you may have already built up your repertoire of sight pictures so the books may not help you as much as it would some who are less experienced. BUT, having said that, even the most experienced shooters struggle with a problem target on occasion and both the books are based on logic, not voodoo. They will give you a logical way to self-analyze why you missed and therefore you can correct on the next shot. The "Reading Targets" book shows actual bird barrel relationships taken with a barrel cam and it is selling on average 20 copies per month over here in the US.
Last edited:
bordergun
Well-known member
And if reading books isn't your thing, perhaps you could splash out on this:- www.LeadTech.co ? It is the best VR shooting simulator on the market. The only other VR simulator out there of note is the ClayHunt pro which does not show the correct leads. Our simulator does. The 100% correct ballistic leads are indicated with a green "phantom" clay in front of the "real" target. When you become proficient, the green "phantom" can then be removed. You can practice all you want in the comfort of your home without burning expensive ammo!
Last edited:
John Billington
New member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2024
- Messages
- 4
Is the book still available I’m in the UK.
bordergun
Well-known member
Reading Targets sold out again here in the US at Amazon. Seems strange if "only beginners will find it useful?" And it's even more strange when the shooters that say that don't offer an alternative or better method for figuring out lead?
Last edited:
John Billington
New member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2024
- Messages
- 4
Just ordered on Amazon UK big? Says 4 to 6 weeks delivery. My guess its from USA. Fingers crossed. Thank you.
bordergun
Well-known member
John. Hard copies of the books are very expensive in the UK these days, that's why I made both books available for electronic download from Amazon.co.uk $8.00 instead of $60. Quite a difference. You will find the book makes sense and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me here:- www.peteblakeley.com Thank you.
Last edited:
Do you have a link for these please
bordergun
Well-known member
Stiggers Go to Amazon.co.uk and you should be able to download the electronic version of both "You're Behind it!" and "Reading Targets" for about 8 GBP each. The Amazon reviews of "Your Behind it!" here in the US speak for themselves but please don't let the reviews of Reading Targets fool you, many benefit but prefer not to say anything.
I mailed three hard copies of that book to shooters in the UK (at a cost of $18.00 each) on the understanding that they would give the book an honest review on here. Unfortunately, only one of them responded by saying, quote:- "there isn't anything new for an experienced shot but a beginner may find it useful to get the idea of lead." In view of the monthly sales here in the US, that seems to me to be an understatement.
I mailed three hard copies of that book to shooters in the UK (at a cost of $18.00 each) on the understanding that they would give the book an honest review on here. Unfortunately, only one of them responded by saying, quote:- "there isn't anything new for an experienced shot but a beginner may find it useful to get the idea of lead." In view of the monthly sales here in the US, that seems to me to be an understatement.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2020
- Messages
- 617
Bordergun said.
"I mailed three hard copies of that book to shooters in the UK (at a cost of $18.00 each) on the understanding that they would give the book an honest review on here. Unfortunately, only one of them responded by saying, quote:- "there isn't anything new for an experienced shot but a beginner may find it useful to get the idea of lead." In view of the monthly sales here in the US, that seems to me to be an understatement"
Peter - I have ignored the continual posts about your books because that what they are. The above however is another backhanded complaint about someone on the forum simply because they have not wholeheartedly supported & agreed with you. I'm sure the person involved will comment if they wish but its odd that they opened & closed their post (#78 above) with caveats about whether you would accept what they wanted to say. Perhaps its better all round on the book front to ignore us and enjoy your monthly sales figures ?
I have included your post in mine as you have a habit of deleting some of yours later.
"I mailed three hard copies of that book to shooters in the UK (at a cost of $18.00 each) on the understanding that they would give the book an honest review on here. Unfortunately, only one of them responded by saying, quote:- "there isn't anything new for an experienced shot but a beginner may find it useful to get the idea of lead." In view of the monthly sales here in the US, that seems to me to be an understatement"
Peter - I have ignored the continual posts about your books because that what they are. The above however is another backhanded complaint about someone on the forum simply because they have not wholeheartedly supported & agreed with you. I'm sure the person involved will comment if they wish but its odd that they opened & closed their post (#78 above) with caveats about whether you would accept what they wanted to say. Perhaps its better all round on the book front to ignore us and enjoy your monthly sales figures ?
I have included your post in mine as you have a habit of deleting some of yours later.
bordergun
Well-known member
Sorry Freddypip you are 100% wrong. Please read my post again and you will see that I asked for an honest review. Please let me repeat that: an HONEST review. I did not expect them to quote:- "wholeheartedly support and agree with me."
Yes, I do promote my books because shooters and the reviews on Amazon tell me they help a lot. I don't understand why that upsets you? Surely, by using the methodology, logically interpreting the variables of line, speed and angles in hours, not months (and in some cases years) is an advantage for most shooters? Some shooters tell me that the books help via e mail, but then, strange as it may seem, they are reluctant to divulge that on here. What is even more disturbing is the fact that some of them tell me the methodology doesn't work, but then refuse to say why, or offer an alternative. That's why I repeatedly tell them I am happy to answer their questions.
And for the record, the electronic version of the book is 8 GBP. After Amazon take their cut, I make a staggering 80p profit per copy.
So, I have a suggestion. Please continue to ignore my "backhanded complaints" and posts and I will continue to help the shooters that tell me they need help. Fair enough? after all, this is a discussion forum, isn't it?
Yes, I do promote my books because shooters and the reviews on Amazon tell me they help a lot. I don't understand why that upsets you? Surely, by using the methodology, logically interpreting the variables of line, speed and angles in hours, not months (and in some cases years) is an advantage for most shooters? Some shooters tell me that the books help via e mail, but then, strange as it may seem, they are reluctant to divulge that on here. What is even more disturbing is the fact that some of them tell me the methodology doesn't work, but then refuse to say why, or offer an alternative. That's why I repeatedly tell them I am happy to answer their questions.
And for the record, the electronic version of the book is 8 GBP. After Amazon take their cut, I make a staggering 80p profit per copy.
So, I have a suggestion. Please continue to ignore my "backhanded complaints" and posts and I will continue to help the shooters that tell me they need help. Fair enough? after all, this is a discussion forum, isn't it?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2020
- Messages
- 617
An honest review should be honest according to the person reading the book – a review expressing their views without bias, influence or deceit. It’s an opinion which the rest of us are then free to value or ignore at our choice. That’s what was given - even then with caveats - and my annoyance is that your self-promotion can’t be parked to allow it to happen without criticism. Contrary to what you say we are not having a discussion here – you are selling stuff and it’s best left to the “For Sale & Wanted” section if you must continually remind us of your self-proclaimed benevolence.
bordergun
Well-known member
bordergun
Well-known member
Freddy. For some reason, there appears to be some hostility towards me promoting the books? I can't think why, but I have had this situation before here in the US. When the book came out in 2017 I received lots of e mails from shooters telling me that they had also thought of this methodology. The difference was, they didn't take the time to compile it in a book, I did. Many coaches and shooters use the methodology now over here including the guy that won $10,000 at the Nationals recently (and I did post the link to that) and that should tell you something. Do most give me credit? Of course not. All shotgun shooters like to believe they are "naturals."
Some shooters are peeved because they take many years developing their target reading skills to make it to the top when the simple answer would be to buy the book and have the ability to logically decipher the variables in hours.
You bought the book, correct? Why didn't you give us all your view without bias, influence or deceit? But you didn't. Your immediate dismissive take was that:- "the lead varies depending on gun speed and the method used ie, swing through, pull away etc." Correct. Nor does the book take into account any eye dominance problems, gun mount problems, targets that may vary in the wind, or indigestion because of the sausages you ate for breakfast.
Some shooters are peeved because they take many years developing their target reading skills to make it to the top when the simple answer would be to buy the book and have the ability to logically decipher the variables in hours.
You bought the book, correct? Why didn't you give us all your view without bias, influence or deceit? But you didn't. Your immediate dismissive take was that:- "the lead varies depending on gun speed and the method used ie, swing through, pull away etc." Correct. Nor does the book take into account any eye dominance problems, gun mount problems, targets that may vary in the wind, or indigestion because of the sausages you ate for breakfast.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2020
- Messages
- 617
Peter.
No hostility just a little frustration that you promote your book every few days when it should be in the in the “For Sale or Wanted" section where we know what it is. I also get ticked when you ask for a review and then knock it down.
“When the book came out in 2017 I received lots of e mails from shooters telling me that they had also thought of this methodology. The difference was, they didn't take the time to compile it in a book, I did.”
I think that’s the point – well done writing the book but some (many, lots, whatever number) already know what it says.
I did give my view without bias, influence or deceit. It’s just you don’t agree with my view. That’s fine but please don’t belittle me or anyone else (see post #91) because it’s not necessarily what you want to hear particularly when it sits on all fours with what you say above – many (presumably experience shooters) had already thought of it just not written it down. The review you refer to made it clear there was reluctance to comment because of your expected response and I expect others feel the same, if not more, now.
In terms of my review I posted (with your permission) a quote. I repeat it here,
“So why do I suggest using a 4 unit lead on both the 15 to 20 yard crossing shot and the 20 to 30 yard crossing shot. Because we have two variables to consider as we trigger the shot. These are the slight differences in gun speed and the shooter reaction time. But the “margin of error” with these two variables should be compensated for by the width of the pattern Using a skeet choke, the pattern width at 15 yards would be about 20 inches but almost twice this (38 inches) at 30 yards. By the same rule the pattern from an improved choke at 20 yards (approx. 18 inches) would be more than twice this (42 inches) at 40 yards. The more experienced shots become so precise that when the shoot they have the ability to “tailor” the target. What this actually means is that, by using a sustained lead method, there gun speed is synchronized exactly with the speed of the target. If they take the front edge or back edge off the target they can they adjust their sight picture so that, with the next shot, they can center it.”
When I read the book that paragraph sums it up very well. If it gets your interest the book is for you. If not . . . I'm sure you will reply but I'm hiding behind the sofa again.
No hostility just a little frustration that you promote your book every few days when it should be in the in the “For Sale or Wanted" section where we know what it is. I also get ticked when you ask for a review and then knock it down.
“When the book came out in 2017 I received lots of e mails from shooters telling me that they had also thought of this methodology. The difference was, they didn't take the time to compile it in a book, I did.”
I think that’s the point – well done writing the book but some (many, lots, whatever number) already know what it says.
I did give my view without bias, influence or deceit. It’s just you don’t agree with my view. That’s fine but please don’t belittle me or anyone else (see post #91) because it’s not necessarily what you want to hear particularly when it sits on all fours with what you say above – many (presumably experience shooters) had already thought of it just not written it down. The review you refer to made it clear there was reluctance to comment because of your expected response and I expect others feel the same, if not more, now.
In terms of my review I posted (with your permission) a quote. I repeat it here,
“So why do I suggest using a 4 unit lead on both the 15 to 20 yard crossing shot and the 20 to 30 yard crossing shot. Because we have two variables to consider as we trigger the shot. These are the slight differences in gun speed and the shooter reaction time. But the “margin of error” with these two variables should be compensated for by the width of the pattern Using a skeet choke, the pattern width at 15 yards would be about 20 inches but almost twice this (38 inches) at 30 yards. By the same rule the pattern from an improved choke at 20 yards (approx. 18 inches) would be more than twice this (42 inches) at 40 yards. The more experienced shots become so precise that when the shoot they have the ability to “tailor” the target. What this actually means is that, by using a sustained lead method, there gun speed is synchronized exactly with the speed of the target. If they take the front edge or back edge off the target they can they adjust their sight picture so that, with the next shot, they can center it.”
When I read the book that paragraph sums it up very well. If it gets your interest the book is for you. If not . . . I'm sure you will reply but I'm hiding behind the sofa again.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2020
- Messages
- 617
FESkent.
There is a kindle app for iphone/ipad etc in case that helps. I'm not sure enough to provide direct instructions on setting it up but My wife used it and it was linked to her Amazon account so purchases were paid for via Amazon and then the book accessible on the App.
There is a kindle app for iphone/ipad etc in case that helps. I'm not sure enough to provide direct instructions on setting it up but My wife used it and it was linked to her Amazon account so purchases were paid for via Amazon and then the book accessible on the App.
