Playing with an idea….

[Andrew Smith]

I have for some time been looking at the prices of cartridges and comparing the UK to Europe and the variations between outlets in the UK for the same cartridge. I have also been considering starting a cartridges sales company. Some warehouse space has been offered by a friend, banking facilities are available As is initial funding.

On the basis that I would need to import cartridges direct from the manufacturer, can someone give me some idea of what licensing etc would be required?

If this can get legs then I would intend to approach cartridge manufacturers such as Cheddite, Trust, RC, Jocker etc and see what pricing I can achieve and if I could operate a direct sales operation, on a smaller scale than JC focussing on clay cartridges ideally.

Help and ideas welcome.

 

[FESkent]

you will find all the brands you have listed have uk importers and hence the manufactures would probably not even want to sell to you.

To store more than 10,000 cartridges (15kg NEQ) you will need and explosive storage licence issued by the police or HSE depending on the total Net Explosive Quantity (NEQ) you want to store.
Suggest you read Explosive Regulations ER2014.

Good luck.

 

[Andrew Smith]

just because a brand has an existing importer, doesn’t mean they aren’t open to an approach. My next task is to list all the cartridge manufacturers to approach and read the ER2014

 

[jasper]

Most folk in the trade will say that there's no money in cartridges . I've been told this on countless occasions.
Grounds only sell them as a service to shooters. Shops only sell them to get you in there to buy something else.
Good luck.
Jasper.

 

[westley]

I know someone who sell just cartridges and clays and has done for a good number of years. Apart from him being one of shootings 'Gentleman ' he seems to be doing OK.

 

[LeeMorrison]

It might seem like a good idea , there was a supplier near me in skipton , they have ceased trading . I’d be interested if the prices are right . Good luck

 

[FESkent]

As an RFD been selling cartridges for many years, it’s a volume selling game as you make very little profit out of cartridges, especially clay cartridges.
So little profit when the EU banned passing on credit/debit card fees we decided to go cash and carry for cartridges as it was not tenable to take a hit on the credit/debit card fees.

More profit out of game cartridges but what does not sell this game season will sit on the shelf’s until next year, costing you money in insurance, storage space and storage environment, hardly the ideal business model, expensive stock sitting around with no likelihood of it selling for many months.

EU manufactured cartridges probably are slightly cheaper within the EU as transport costs will be less especially after BREXIT and likewise even a U.K. made cartridge may be cheaper as they probably ship an entire 40ft full container load to their distributor at a time.

I applaud your idea and will be interested to see how you get on I would think you will need to have a few hundred thousand £ or € to play with. After all if it was easy to make extra profit JC would import rather than buy from U.K. manufacturers or the established U.K. importers.

 

[Andrew Smith]

As an RFD been selling cartridges for many years, it’s a volume selling game as you make very little profit out of cartridges, especially clay cartridges.
So little profit when the EU banned passing on credit/debit card fees we decided to go cash and carry for cartridges as it was not tenable to take a hit on the credit/debit card fees.

More profit out of game cartridges but what does not sell this game season will sit on the shelf’s until next year, costing you money in insurance, storage space and storage environment, hardly the ideal business model, expensive stock sitting around with no likelihood of it selling for many months.

EU manufactured cartridges probably are slightly cheaper within the EU as transport costs will be less especially after BREXIT and likewise even a U.K. made cartridge may be cheaper as they probably ship an entire 40ft full container load to their distributor at a time.

I applaud your idea and will be interested to see how you get on I would think you will need to have a few hundred thousand £ or € to play with. After all if it was easy to make extra profit JC would import rather than buy from U.K. manufacturers or the established U.K. importers.

So what is your profit margin on clay cartridges on average? 12%? 8.5%?

A lot will have to do with overheads, JC have a basic warehouse in rural Oxfordshire that no doubt will be cheap to rent. They have a cash and carry counter and that’s it. Nothing fancy, but it works well. If I go ahead with this I already have an offer of some cheap warehouse space on a sub let basis on easy terms. I aim to keep costs on the floor. JC’s are not the cheapest on many loads.

 

[FESkent]

So what is your profit margin on clay cartridges on average? 12%? 8.5%?

A lot will have to do with overheads, JC have a basic warehouse in rural Oxfordshire that no doubt will be cheap to rent. They have a cash and carry counter and that’s it. Nothing fancy, but it works well. If I go ahead with this I already have an offer of some cheap warehouse space on a sub let basis on easy terms. I aim to keep costs on the floor. JC’s are not the cheapest on many loads.

For us on Clay cartridges 8% profit, the VAT man gets more at 20%. It may not seam that way but depending on where you live it is a very competitive retail market for cartridges. Hence my earlier comment, being a consumable product it’s a volume business, hopefully sell lots at a small profit.

I do not think a warehouse the size of JC in Oxfordshire will be cheap for rent (or buy), business rates or insurance, then the running costs.
However you are correct keeping business operating cost to a minimum is vital in this day and age to be competitive in price as the majority of customers are very price conscious given the current cost of living increases.

The fact JC is not the cheapest is an incentive for them to do as you are thinking of doing, hence there must be a very good reason why they are not. Why have their own brand manufactured in the U.K. when they could go to the EU?
JC offer a very wide range of brands and types of cartridges and offer a convenient delivery service. Which local cartridge retailers would struggle to do as they most likely do not sell only cartridges as their core business and stock very much fewer brands.
It is very easy to tie up a lot of money in cartridges, e.g what do you stock even in 12ga clay cartridges the choice of brands and types is massive; plastic or fibre wads, 21gm, 24gm, 26gm, 27gm, 28gm, 9, 8, 7.5 lead shot, then for some (and may be one day for all) steel shot with or without biodegradable wads?

 

[Andrew Smith]

The space I have an offer on is a sub let of part of an existing building, nothing like the size of JC who I feel could operate from a much smaller space if they used suitable racking etc - all their stuff is at ground level or 1 tier racking only. I’m looking at direct import from the Manufacturers, with a limited range - it wouldn’t cover anything like the range JC distributes.

but if I can’t get the deals and pricing it won’t happen.

 

[Ragerover]

I know someone who did the very same as you
Did really well in the 1st few months but a few of the bigger company’s who had long standing deals and bought 10 pallets at a time. Told the manufacturer. If you supply X then we won’t buy
Manufacturers looked at a guarantee sale ( going on past yrs) or a mybe

They chose not to supply my friend

That said good luck

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I have no idea about the required licensing and insurance requirements in the UK, but going on what applies at my end of the Channel, subletting a premises could be an issue. In the application for permits storage and retail of munitions (and likely same for insurance) you have to demonstrate either ownership or a long-term, direct lease-agreement of 'suitable' premises. I believe this is because of the fact that if your lessor somehow has his lease terminated, you would have an issue as sub-lessee and it wouldn't do if all of a sudden you have to store stock in your own garage or worse. As for the suitability of the premises, our requirements may be stricter than yours (shotshells only being allowed in the hands of RFD or permit-holders) but all has to be safeguarded from burglary with a state of the art alarm, doors, locks and other bells & whistles. Added to that are requirements for storage and mitigation of fire hazards, which all add up to a significant outlay from the onset.

Not wanting to dissuade you (in fact I wish you well and encourage you to set about improving the market) but sharing my thoughts so you can vet your plans.

 

[vmax1010]

Re-reading this I would have thought the market in your area or distribution around the country whoud be the limiting factor

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Re-reading this I would have thought the market in your area or distribution around the country whould be the limiting factor

Distribution around the country here isn't as big a deal as it would be in the UK - we're a lot smaller as a country and the services that are licensed to transport munitions can do so all over, with distances not being that great. As for the market, "in one's area" is a bigger percentage of our country than yours. The number of grounds isn't increasing though, and neither is the number of shooters. Whether a new name in the game could do it better than the existing shops is anyone's guess but starting from scratch would require a pretty deep pocket.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

I have for some time been looking at the prices of cartridges and comparing the UK to Europe and the variations between outlets in the UK for the same cartridge. I have also been considering starting a cartridges sales company. Some warehouse space has been offered by a friend, banking facilities are available As is initial funding.

On the basis that I would need to import cartridges direct from the manufacturer, can someone give me some idea of what licensing etc would be required?

If this can get legs then I would intend to approach cartridge manufacturers such as Cheddite, Trust, RC, Jocker etc and see what pricing I can achieve and if I could operate a direct sales operation, on a smaller scale than JC focussing on clay cartridges ideally.

Help and ideas welcome.

i would love to know the profit margin on cartridges ? im told by sellers its peanuts but they all seem to be doing well !!!

 

[Bavarian]

The last time my seller had to wait 4 month for his cartridges. No delivery date. He got half of what he ordered.
If he had to rely just on selling cartridges he would already be bancrupt.

 

[Steve1970]

The last time my seller had to wait 4 month for his cartridges. No delivery date. He got half of what he ordered.
If he had to rely just on selling cartridges he would already be bancrupt.

Yep at the moment it seems like "what's available " vs "how much have my usual cartridges gone up".

 

[MartynB]

Supply and demand , some of the big manufacturers are working flat out on military ammunition at the moment . The demand for propellant and the base chemicals has gone through the roof , and that demand for the downstream chemicals will be competing with other products that use them like agrochemicals , paint and coatings just to name a couple .