Proposed new Sporting clays classification system

[Will Hewland]

I just need a tame ground, with regular score outputs that they would share... so that it could be tested in the wild. 

I already have shootclayscores.com ready to go (nothing there yet - but ready)

Matt,

I don't quite see why there is a need to implement new monitoring. You can simply take any number of existing shoots / shooters from the last few months as a case study and compile the data. That way you could take care to add in a known cross section of shooters to see how they would have been graded under my system. For instance, I know one or two who only shoot easy grounds to maintain a high class. I am sure i could run their scores through my system and see them go down a class.

 

[RobertBeard]

I think perhaps you need to PM a few on here.

They might not want to participate publicly until tried tested and accepted.

Perhaps it would contravene some rule or other!

 

[Will Hewland]

You just take old data that is in the public domain from the CPSA scores lists and re-evaluate it as a test case. Its no different from when journalists retrospectively looked at F1 and used the modern points system to see what different outcomes there would have been in past years -out of interest. This will happen again after the last race this year, with the controversial double points for last race. People will just see what it would have panned out like without double points. (Sorry to go off re F1)

 

[Will Hewland]

Wow. Just looked at one fella, who for the last 7 shoots has finished between 84% and 86.7% up the list. Certainly in his case, it shows where he is repeatedly in the pecking order, (forgetting scores).

Interestingly, there was one other shoot he did a while back. it was an easy affair and despite hitting a AAA score under the present system, my system showed he was only 72.5% up the list, so actually a bad day that should not be rewarded with a AAA score sent to CPSA. In fact, that score would have dropped off as more than 10% below his average.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Oooooh this is going to be fun.

Hey Bobby....don't worry...like Will said....public domain.

Shooters March forth.....only for the brave...!!

Innovative and experiment unless your language is Baaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaa

 

[Steve Lovatt]

i would run a shoot on this basis if you want to try it and we will invite nick fellows and a few board members up to see it and have a go 

 

[ips]

excellent idea steve, very interested both in the results and the feedback from cpsa

 

[tiptop]

So people shoot in classes A,B,C have a good day and win.

Under this proposal could the same people have a good day,be classed higher and win nothing, is this classing on the day.

Don't go cutting your nose of to spite your face, one thing is for sure alienating the lower classes from their little class competition may not have the desired effect for sporting. 

Be careful what you wish for could be the death knell for sporting as we know it.

Strange that there seems to be a lot of in put from the trap shooters on this subject where they only have a handful of shooters to compete against. :biggrin:

 

[Will Hewland]

So people shoot in classes A,B,C have a good day and win.

Under this proposal could the same people have a good day,be classed higher and win nothing, is this classing on the day.

Don't go cutting your nose of to spite your face, one thing is for sure alienating the lower classes from their little class competition may not have the desired effect for sporting. 

Be careful what you wish for could be the death knell for sporting as we know it.

Strange that there seems to be a lot of in put from the trap shooters on this subject where they only have a handful of shooters to compete against. :biggrin:

Martin, this is not classing on the day. Very similar system to now, all the classes, classified every six months. Just uses position at each shoot as your result to send in to CPSA, not number of clays hit

 

[tiptop]

Do people honestly think that all this sandbagging really goes on.

The real sandbagger by definition is someone that manipulates scores to win money/prizes/competition.

The real baggers are the good shots that don't really shoot registered shoots, but will go out and put in 3 bad scores to get classified then pick anyone of the big competions (unregistered so the score never gets recorded) rock up as C class bandit shoot AAA score walk off with the loot job done. You won't stop it happening.

If people think this happens in sunday registered shooting well,it just won't pay :fie:

System as it is with random cut off DATES so nobody knew when reclassification is, would be interesting, then you couldn't manipulate anything because you wouldn't know the cut off time, so little Johnny good shot could get reclasified at anytime, rock up at a shoot hello your now AA. How simple is that. :bb:

 

[Jaykaysea]

Would I still be in C class Will? I want to be a guinea pig.....

 

[ips]

I think what we're trying to achieve is a true reflection of a shooters ability not primarily to eradicate sand bagging which I agree is not a common occurrence.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

and we could shoot good targets without worrying about friggin averages , what a breath of fresh air that would be !!!!!

 

[tiptop]

Trouble is how do you get that reflection of true ability, because i and i'msure others put some shocking scores in now and then not on purpose it just happens to be a sh*te day,not even particularly tough shoots.

What people have to remember here is that the majority of the shooters on registered shoots go to shoot in thier class competiton. H/G is just a pipe dream for most.

P.S If i'm lucky i might have actuall clawed my way into A this time round, but only if the cut off is below 75.2%

 

[jim french]

Well thats the best idea to date well done Will Hewland lets give it ago. So come on CPSA, Steve Lovatt said he would try it so get behind him.And as S L just said good targets without worrying about averages. 

 

[ips]

and we could shoot good targets without worrying about friggin averages , what a breath of fresh air that would be !!!!!

Exactly

 

[Rosso]

Best thing to do is join the BASC for the insurance and stuff it all.

That's what I'll probably do next year.

Shoot birds only everywhere.

Do the big shoots get classed on the day.

And enjoy it.

 

[tiptop]

The best thing to do " IS JUST GET ON AND SHOOT " FFS.

 

[chanonry]

That approach will not achieve your aim.

Think about it...

 

[timps]

I like the idea the only issue I can see is with small registered shoots or shoots that for whatever reason have a low turnout of top shots such as a clash with another big shoot.

Although not sporting I have been high gun twice in one cut off at registered sportrap. I would love to say I was a sportrap God but in reality it was just low turn out both times. My scores were both what I would expect average wise just I was the best of the low turn out. No way am I an AA shooter at sportrap but that's what I would have be classed under this system as I don't shoot much sportrap so 2 100% scores would mean I was a god.

I also have been 3rd at registered skeet which was also last place and to be fair last place is all I feel like aiming for at skeet anyway. But the point being 1st gets 100% for beating 2 guys by a couple of clays.

It certainly has the basis of a good system and the above are extremes and not sporting however they are on my registered scores and I have been to quite a few low turn out sporting shoots where it would also skew the scores unfairly. So just pointing out that you would have to take into account that for some of the smaller shoots or shoots not frequented by some of the big names it could be an unfair system or even abused.

I would be a tad upset to card in the 80's only to have it dropped to 50 because sod all of the lower classes have turned up to a wet and windy winter series shoot. Yes it would be discarded but shooting ok only for it not to count would pee me off.