Shooting without chokes

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I wouldn't personally do it as I can 't see that it'll throw more open than a Cylinder which you might as well screw in, but I have read that some very good shooters here and abroad routinely do it once in a while. For what it's worth I've seen Browning/Miroku club guns abroad with their threads shot smooth with plastic wads.

 
We were having this conversation in my local club last week and one shooter told us how he used to do it quite often then one day his choke flew out of the end of his gun as there was not enough thread left to hold it in.

I think he said it was a Browning. Certainly put me off the idea.

 
Chris B said:
It would obviously throw a wider pattern than cylinder as there is less restriction.
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Actually no it wouldn't, there IS no constriction with Cylinder, I have read fairly long winded threads on ShotgunWorld where those predisposed to test this sort of thing report no difference. Makes sense when you think about it otherwise someone would have invented a blunderbuss multi choke and made a small fortune. B)

 
Hamster said:
Actually no it wouldn't, there IS no constriction with Cylinder, I have read fairly long winded threads on ShotgunWorld where those predisposed to test this sort of thing report no difference. Makes sense when you think about it otherwise someone would have invented a blunderbuss multi choke and made a small fortune. B)
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Hamster, your talking pish again!!!

Beretta Optima HP skeet chokes are more open than cylinder, I.e. they flair out, negative 5 or 10 though...and yes, they throw a bigger pattern than cylinder...and guess what, take the choke out all together and you get a slightly bigger pattern again!!! As tested earlier tonight, with 28g Clever Mirage 8's, with cut wads (all UK Clever shells have cut wads) against an old diesel tank, (sitting on the scrap heap) from 25yds, through a 32" DT11

 
Darkside said:
Hamster, your talking pish again!!!

Beretta Optima HP skeet chokes are more open than cylinder, I.e. they flair out, negative 5 or 10 though...and yes, they throw a bigger pattern than cylinder...and guess what, take the choke out all together and you get a slightly bigger pattern again!!! As tested earlier tonight, with 28g Clever Mirage 8's, with cut wads (all UK Clever shells have cut wads) against an old diesel tank, (sitting on the scrap heap) from 25yds, through a 32" DT11
Click to expand...
Not really Darkside, not sure about the again bit either as would pit my tecchy knowledge against your whimsical musings any day of the week. 

I can't disagree with your diesel tank test but what I can say is that there is no more open than non existent constriction, that being Cylinder, negative flair out choke is non sense marketing. Think about it, if I choose not to screw a negative choke in, I am in fact benefitting from a massive negative choke anyway, that being the blue yonder atmosphere once the pellets leave the barrel.

The Cylinder choke has no constriction, that means it is the same as the barrel (to all intents and purposes), therefore the only thing you achieve by not putting a choke is liberating the shot a half inch earlier into the air, that is all - negative choke does not exist. There are Tulip and other add on gadgets that do work but they were designed for skeet and I believe have been banned in any case but they act on the shot and wad whilst they're still within the barrel.

The only way threads could help is if they impart something onto the shot, they can't because they're not touching the shot, as mentioned you have just shortened your barrel by a few mm's that's all. This is an interesting subject and if you go on ShotgunWorld you can search for and benefit from some very prolonged tests that beat your tank one into a cocked hat, you just gotta keep calm and be ready to accept and learn when you're wrong.

Incidentally the reason threads do eventually wear smooth isn't plastic or fibre or shot contact but hot gasses and general muck at supersonic speed.

 
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Another very interesting development was to do with the quality and regularity of shot and whether you could deliberately design and load shells that had misshaped, irregular pellets that helped you on rabbit stands. Apparently you simply cannot make any difference at close range where you need that help.

 
Hamster said:
Another very interesting development was to do with the quality and regularity of shot and whether you could deliberately design and load shells that had misshaped, irregular pellets that helped you on rabbit stands. Apparently you simply cannot make any difference at close range where you need that help.
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Having dabbled with the great search for wide spreading cartridges (and chokes when I had them) I very reluctantly gave up and have accepted that working on your own ability on close stuff is the only effective measure.

 
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It is interesting that some people spend money and time on such matters whilst Fauldsy shoots with Full choke???

 
https://www.bingle.com/webhp?hl=en&sa=N&tab=lw&authuser=0#authuser=0&hl=en&q=table+of+choke+constrictions

I have just searched for choke comparison charts and without exception they all list Skeet as having some constriction, Cylinder being termed True Cylinder as in parallel. Now it's entirely possible that Beretta have cooked the figures and swapped names around on their HP range between Skeet and Cyl but established rules still apply. 

Also worth bearing in mind that even so called spreader shells are widely acknowledged as having no effect when shot through open chokes, because there is a limit to how open you can go. 

 
I believe the name for the flaired out barrel end used to be called a Tula choke, most favoured by the Russkies I think. Or maybe I am talking pish. Any one else remember them.

Phil*

Darkside said:
Hamster, your talking pish again!!!

Beretta Optima HP skeet chokes are more open than cylinder, I.e. they flair out, negative 5 or 10 though...and yes, they throw a bigger pattern than cylinder...and guess what, take the choke out all together and you get a slightly bigger pattern again!!! As tested earlier tonight, with 28g Clever Mirage 8's, with cut wads (all UK Clever shells have cut wads) against an old diesel tank, (sitting on the scrap heap) from 25yds, through a 32" DT11
Click to expand...

Hamster said:
Not really Darkside, not sure about the again bit either as would pit my tecchy knowledge against your whimsical musings any day of the week. 

I can't disagree with your diesel tank test but what I can say is that there is no more open than non existent constriction, that being Cylinder, negative flair out choke is non sense marketing. Think about it, if I choose not to screw in a negative choke in, I am in fact benefitting from a massive negative choke anyway, that being the blue yonder atmosphere once the pellets leave the barrel.

The Cylinder choke has no constriction, that means it is the same as the barrel (to all intents and purposes), therefore the only thing you achieve by not putting a choke is liberating the shot a half inch earlier into the air, that is all - negative choke does not exist. There are Tulip and other add on gadgets that do work but they were designed for skeet and I believe have been banned in any case but they act on the shot and wad whilst they're still within the barrel.

The only way threads could help is if they impart something onto the shot, they can't because they're not touching the shot, as mentioned you have just shortened your barrel by a few mm's that's all. This is an interesting subject and if you go on ShotgunWorld you can search for and benefit from some very prolonged tests that beat your tank one into a cocked hat, you just gotta keep calm and be ready to accept and learn when you're wrong.

Incidentally the reason threads do eventually wear smooth isn't plastic or fibre or shot contact but hot gasses and general muck at supersonic speed.
Click to expand...
 
Angelfire said:
I believe the name for the flaired out barrel end used to be called a Tula choke, most favoured by the Russkies I think. Or maybe I am talking pish. Any one else remember them.

Phil*
Click to expand...
Yes Phil your right, I've got a Vostok MU8 and an MU6 both Tula choked Skeet guns, specifically designed for 32g fibre.

 
Daft idea.......don't do it.

Bad idea to show kids to do it too.

Use the gun as it is meant to be used.

Simples...

 
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