Steel, Do You Or Don't You?

[GlenPresley]

Far as im concerned the more nuggets in the shell the better, more chance of "flyer kills" :lol:

To some extent i agree. Obviously a 9 at an edge 60yard + slow crosser is not going to be any advantage, but upto 60yards surely an 28gram 8 steel through 3/4 Full has to be better than a 6 or 7?

I feel another test coming on but it is bloody hard to get anything else than 7's or 7.5's out here! :-(

 

[Hamster]

Really people think they really can notice that???? I doubt it??? The only time i have ever noticed the speed of the shell is with some of the subsonics but even then I wouldn't say you needed to change that much.

I think I can tell the speed difference Glen. OK not all the time and shot to shot but on the whole I can make a pretty good assessment based on shooting a few hundred, often the difference is obvious and believe me it can play havoc with your game.

Remember a few years ago when everyone was all dewy eyed over the 21g thing? I felt they were slower than regular shells and said so on the forums and sure enough when they tested them I was proved right. Come to think of it I was also proved right that they won't be changing our habits any time soon.

 

[Hamster]

Not noticed that Olympics are any slower than anything else, I really like them and the only reason I was looking for a change was they dont do a 9 in them and l like to carry a few around for the close stuff. wanted 1 shell I can use in 7.5 and 9s

I have been using English 8's for over twenty years now Fuzrat , gets around that little problem rather nicely.

 

[GlenPresley]

I think I can tell the speed difference Glen. OK not all the time and shot to shot but on the whole I can make a pretty good assessment based on shooting a few hundred, often the difference is obvious and believe me it can play havoc with your game.

Remember a few years ago when everyone was all dewy eyed over the 21g thing? I felt they were slower than regular shells and said so on the forums and sure enough when they tested them I was proved right. Come to think of it I was also proved right that they won't be changing our habits any time soon.

Ok fairplay to you what is the difference in the two?

The average shell is what 1500fps??? What are we talking here? How big a difference in your eleys? 21gram are 1425fps! Mmmmmm measurable by shooting a few? Well personally I haven't been able to notice much difference only when I switched to subsonic or tried i think they were called Chevron then I could notice it! Steel are up there with the speed of 21gram and i will be damned if i can notice the speed between those and lead???

Mind games????

 

[Hamster]

Personally I think even fast shells are only doing 1400+ fps, we're told/sold 1550 by marketing types . Slower can be anything less than 1300 or so. Maybe I'm particularly sensitive, it's possible, I used to carry .177 pellets in my mouth :yell: :yell: (didn't know any better), as a kid and shot 5 or 6 days a week. The difference between .22 and .177 is about 200 fps and is bloody noticeable I'll tell you .

It's not that I necessarily see the back end break or whatever, it can often be the time delay between shot/break that gives it away.

 

[Hawkeye]

look's like i'll have to put some shell's through a chronograph to see how close they are to spec. I've used lots of different shell's over the years and never noticed any difference in lead from 1 to another. Seen different lead from one gun to another but thats another story.

 

[GlenPresley]

Personally I think even fast shells are only doing 1400+ fps, we're told/sold 1550 by marketing types . Slower can be anything less than 1300 or so. Maybe I'm particularly sensitive, it's possible, I used to carry .177 pellets in my mouth :yell: :yell: (didn't know any better), as a kid and shot 5 or 6 days a week. The difference between .22 and .177 is about 200 fps and is bloody noticeable I'll tell you .

It's not that I necessarily see the back end break or whatever, it can often be the time delay between shot/break that gives it away.

Maybe you notice it more then based on your previous history. Between shot and break definitely noticeable with subsonics in some cases but not all the time I found?? Don't know why that is? It is interesting but not something I would put me missing down too!

Wish i knew more about steel in smaller shot sizes though especially 8's. I am not really interested though in someone telling me yeah they dont have this amount of energy and all that crap, all I want to know is will they break a clay at 50-60 yards and is it as I am thinking an advantage because surely a 28gram 8 steel has more pellets than these 7's and 6's.

Just put it this way if somebody gave me 28 gram 9's in lead to shoot at the last event I shot out here then I can honestly say there was definitely no target thrown that could not be killed with them with some choke.

Can I say the same for steel??? I don't know but someone must do? Then again what are you to believe as you really have to skip through the bulls**t most of the time when you are given info about steel.

I guess the best way is to go shoot some and find out again!

 

[Maxum]

There arnt many grounds that will allow you to shoot steel carts. Most round the midlands have signs up banning the use of steel on the grounds.

 

[GlenPresley]

Hi Maxum,

Question is are they really that big a health and safety issue? With Trap it could be more justified. For sporting and fitasc I have yet to see any incidents which would be considered a health and safety issue, hopefully I never will.

I guess it is one of those things we will never know for sure as no figures would ever be published about it!

Glen.

 

[Hamster]

Wish i knew more about steel in smaller shot sizes though especially 8's. I am not really interested though in someone telling me yeah they dont have this amount of energy and all that crap, all I want to know is will they break a clay at 50-60 yards and is it as I am thinking an advantage because surely a 28gram 8 steel has more pellets than these 7's and 6's.

That's pretty much my reasoning in using English 8's for 95% of the birds but then I firmly believe even single strikes can lead to breaks at sensible range. Not sure if they even make steel 8's though, what actual diameter would these be? You're right about greater numbers of course but maybe they just don't cut it past 30 yards, someone probably checked already?!

 

[GlenPresley]

That's pretty much my reasoning in using English 8's for 95% of the birds but then I firmly believe even single strikes can lead to breaks at sensible range. Not sure if they even make steel 8's though, what actual diameter would these be? You're right about greater numbers of course but maybe they just don't cut it past 30 yards, someone probably checked already?!

Yeah could be Hammy but like I said even if someone has checked how do you know from all the sh*te talked about the stuff!

 

[GlenPresley]

If John was talking about Steel 9's for skeet then I guess 8's should be available???

You can get 7.5's for sure. I will have to investigate further on that.

 

[40UP]

To stop steel 9s having a thousand pellets to the ounce I believe they put size 7s in them. Somebody cut one open and count - I think they make the quantity equal not the size ie they are "FE9"

 

[40UP]

This thing about cartridge speed:

Fast cartridge = more recoil, slower cartridge = better pattern.

All cartridges are subsonic at 10 yards, Olympic Trap targets are thrown at 60mph.

Shot = 800mph, target = 40mph, shot is only 20 times faster than the clay.

Every 20 yards the shot travels, the clay moves 1 yard [if the shot string is 7ft then the target moves only it's own width in the passage of the whole shot string].

Because smaller pellets lose energy faster than big pellets but the number of pellets is proportionate then:

28gm 7s at 30yd has the same striking energy as 30gm 8s or 32 gm 9s hence 24gm 7s is better than 28gm 9s

Off to cousin's funeral now, see you later

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Brilliant 40UP. But you left out the fact that steel is a lighter weight than lead on the same diameter shot ))))))))

Can you please factor that in as well for us ))))))))))))

Hope they have a good bar! Funerals are more bearable if there is a good wake!!

 

[Hamster]

This thing about cartridge speed:

Fast cartridge = more recoil, slower cartridge = better pattern.

First part proven within reason, although some fast cartridges can have recoil characteristics that are easier to live with than somewhat slower shells.

Second part disproved on paper as well as real life experiences. Most of the top shots use the fastest shells they can live with, non could afford poor patterns.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

OK......

 

[Les Graham]

Having read all this lot I'm going to buy a couple of boxes and give them a try.

 

[GlenPresley]

do it Les you will be surprised you can read my small test I did I posted about it on here I will find it and attach!

 

[GlenPresley]

Can't find it! sorry maybe someone else can help and find it on here?