The craze for increasingly High Pheasant Shooting

[Salopian]

I keep seeing videos and reading magazine reports about shooting Pheasants at what appears to be extreme range . Is it really necessary to try to shoot these birds at these ranges to enjoy yourselves? Why ?

The cartridge manufacturers are partly to blame by loading stupidly ridiculous loads of 50gram + Lead loads and calling them High Pheasant .

I think these large loads and the height of bird shooting is getting totally crazy .

How many of you feel confident to take on a bird at 60 yards high plus?

W W Greener advocated that a Game gun should be 96 time heavier than the shot load to be comfortable in recoil .

This would result in guns being about 10 and 3/4 lbs in weight .

Acting as a Loader for these Numbskulls would entail you carrying a pair of guns weighing a total of 21& 1/2 pounds plus 200 shells weighing over 30 lbs + all their other accessories .

The World really is going mad.

But WHY do they do it?

 

[ChrisPackham]

I agree, I think it's unethical and is purely down to willy waving /' considerably richer than yow' mentality.  I have done a couple of these days having booked them not knowing any better and won't be doing any more. Same comments apply for Big Bag days

i think part of the problem is the allowance of clay guns for game shooting and therefore the big cartridges are comfortable, to me if a bird can't be fairly taken by a good shot at less than 4/1 by something like 32g no5 ( therefore possibly English 4) then it is out of range for a shotgun and should not be shot at.  I have successfully shot pheasant at good ratios that were a genuine 60/65/70 yards through 3/4 choke with 32g no5 Hull HPX and its a long way, I would suggest that the ballistic limit is being approached at this level.

Shoots that boast 10/1 ratios should be shut down.

Everyone enjoys shooting high sporting birds but WELL PRESENTED birds at 50/60 yards max should be a tough enough test for anyone if using game guns and sensible cartridges.

Shoots should be concentrating on imaginative and challenging presentation, to rely on height is the easy option and just cashing in.

There would be outrage if people were shooting fluffy bunnies with .22 lr at 300 yards, this is no different except pheasants aren't cute.

 

[MJJ]

The simple answer is - Because they can.

I was talking to a shoot owner the other day. He said that he only wanted people who enjoyed there shooting, joined in and returned, because they liked the days he put on. Not people who come along, shoot as much as they can, leave birds all over the place and f-off never to be seen again. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

The simple answer is - Because they can.

I was talking to a shoot owner the other day. He said that he only wanted people who enjoyed there shooting, joined in and returned, because they liked the days he put on. Not people who come along, shoot as much as they can, leave birds all over the place and f-off never to be seen again. 

But a lot of this is down to him as shoot owner, not the guns.  People won't and shouldn't return to to sub standard shoots, I would say 20% of our days this year have been poor at best.

There is simply too much choice and availability for people to return to shoots that are less than excellent.  Any shooting is a not insignificant expense.

 

[Hamster]

I keep seeing videos and reading magazine reports about shooting Pheasants at what appears to be extreme range . Is it really necessary to try to shoot these birds at these ranges to enjoy yourselves? Why ?

The cartridge manufacturers are partly to blame by loading stupidly ridiculous loads of 50gram + Lead loads and calling them High Pheasant .

I think these large loads and the height of bird shooting is getting totally crazy .

How many of you feel confident to take on a bird at 60 yards high plus?

W W Greener advocated that a Game gun should be 96 time heavier than the shot load to be comfortable in recoil .

This would result in guns being about 10 and 3/4 lbs in weight .

Acting as a Loader for these Numbskulls would entail you carrying a pair of guns weighing a total of 21& 1/2 pounds plus 200 shells weighing over 30 lbs + all their other accessories .

The World really is going mad.

But WHY do they do it?

Copy/paste my own rant from PigeonWatch : 

Agreed, bear in mind that by contemporary actual standards and practices Greener's assertion was patently on the optimistic side so that would mean the guns would have to weight even more to cope with 40g loads. 

There is no doubt that there are people capable of maintaining the accuracy needed to kill game at extended range without increasing the probability of wounding compared to shorter (but still challenging ranges) but sadly these probably number less than 50 in the whole of the country. 

I eagerly await the day technology catches up and we are able to accurately measure, track, film and assess high bird shoots and find out what proportion get pricked by pricks. 

Shoots that boast 10/1 ratios should be shut down.

This for me is the crux of it, one has to ask why fewer are killed cleanly per bang than say 40 yards and I simply refuse to believe that the wounding ratio remains the same. The longer the range the harder it becomes to immediately see whether birds are being pricked (which would be your cue to stop) and of course the very fact they are much higher means they'll carry on further undetected and the injury would likely be less severe due to less penetration so there is a high chance of lots of game flying the same gauntlet and barrage of guns a few days later but whilst carrying a pellet or two just under the skin. And all for the glory of distance, you can prove your prowess of distance on inanimate objects and the glory lasts much longer because the score will be recorded and you might even get a mention by your peers. 

 

[Jonny English]

The majority of my shooting days this year the game is all shot at a maximum of 40 yards, with the occasional exceptional bird just a little further than this. I have full confidence that even on a bad day I can shoot at 3:1 or under. We have had one day this year where we had a higher bird day, some birds being presented at 50-60 yards up, I still managed to maintain a 3:1 ratio but I felt I was right up on my limit, another 5 or 10 yards up and I would be seriously lacking in ability. In all fairness I enjoyed the high bird day, but it was no more entertaining than our 40 yard bird days.

 

[ChrisPackham]

Copy/paste my own rant from PigeonWatch : 

Agreed, bear in mind that by contemporary actual standards and practices Greener's assertion was patently on the optimistic side so that would mean the guns would have to weight even more to cope with 40g loads. 

There is no doubt that there are people capable of maintaining the accuracy needed to kill game at extended range without increasing the probability of wounding compared to shorter (but still challenging ranges) but sadly these probably number less than 50 in the whole of the country. 

I eagerly await the day technology catches up and we are able to accurately measure, track, film and assess high bird shoots and find out what proportion get pricked by pricks. 

This for me is the crux of it, one has to ask why fewer are killed cleanly per bang than say 40 yards and I simply refuse to believe that the wounding ratio remains the same. The longer the range the harder it becomes to immediately see whether birds are being pricked (which would be your cue to stop) and of course the very fact they are much higher means they'll carry on further undetected and the injury would likely be less severe due to less penetration so there is a high chance of lots of game flying the same gauntlet and barrage of guns a few days later but whilst carrying a pellet or two just under the skin. And all for the glory of distance, you can prove your prowess of distance on inanimate objects and the glory lasts much longer because the score will be recorded and you might even get a mention by your peers. 

Excellent post, thank you.  I believe that there needs to be a mentality change in shooting celebrities glamourising this irresponsible behaviour, not one would entertain 1,000 yard Deer for example, #pheasantlivesmatter

 

[ips]

8 guns, 250 bird, 50yd

job done.

 

[Garwood]

Excellent post, thank you.  I believe that there needs to be a mentality change in shooting celebrities glamourising this irresponsible behaviour, not one would entertain 1,000 yard Deer for example, #pheasantlivesmatter

There lies the crux ! It`s all about people and their inflated egos.The more you read a name in the comics,the bigger the..........That is infallable !

 

[westley]

I feel that the same applies to .410" days too.

 

[ips]

I never understood shooting game with a pop gun either.

 

[Hamster]

I feel that the same applies to .410" days too.

Now that really is taking the proverbial  , to knowingly and deliberately go out undergunned just to prove that low game can be brought down with small loads ! I guarantee if I fire enough times I can fetch one down with a break barrel air gun, hellllllllo. 

 

[Paul120]

Most people have no idea about judging distance.  Plus where ego's are involved you have to allow for the 30% BS factor.

A good tip given from my moutain biking days.. If x said they had done a trail in 2 hours, they had really taken 3 and you should factor that into your planning if doing it yourself.

At quoted 70yd bird in reality is prob 45 yards. 

How big does a pheasant look at 70+.?

 

[Garwood]

You`re correct there.

A real 45yd high pheasant looks a long way up !

 

[Hamster]

Most people have no idea about judging distance.  Plus where ego's are involved you have to allow for the 30% BS factor.

A good tip given from my moutain biking days.. If x said they had done a trail in 2 hours, they had really taken 3 and you should factor that into your planning if doing it yourself.

At quoted 70yd bird in reality is prob 45 yards. 

How big does a pheasant look at 70+.?

When you play around with an electronic range finder it sure gives you a different perspective on our "manufactured reality".  :lol:

 

[westley]

I can recall being invited to a 'high bird' shoot many years ago. ALL  of the other guns were sporting trap guns of one form or another, bored Full/Full,  and at that time,  32gram 5's were being advised. I had taken my 'game' gun and my usual 30 gram 'pure golds'  (before they changed the loading   :???: ) so felt a little 'undergunned'.  However, I was there and was going to make the best of things.  I was selective in my shooting and the birds were high BUT killable, after 2 drives I had a few down and it was elevenses. Two of the 'Trap gun Brigade' would not believe that my gun was only 2 1/2" chambers and I was only using 30 grams, until I showed them both gun and cartridges. I did not have the heart to tell them it was I/C and 3/4 chokes too  !

 

[chippy]

Most people have no idea about judging distance.  Plus where ego's are involved you have to allow for the 30% BS factor.

A good tip given from my moutain biking days.. If x said they had done a trail in 2 hours, they had really taken 3 and you should factor that into your planning if doing it yourself.

At quoted 70yd bird in reality is prob 45 yards. 

How big does a pheasant look at 70+.?

Rifle shooters are just as bad. Bloke in the gunshop the other week told me he had shot a fox running at full pelt at 400 yards. I said how much lead did you have to give it. He said you don't need to lead things with a rifle.

 

[ChrisPackham]

Most people have no idea about judging distance.  Plus where ego's are involved you have to allow for the 30% BS factor.

A good tip given from my moutain biking days.. If x said they had done a trail in 2 hours, they had really taken 3 and you should factor that into your planning if doing it yourself.

At quoted 70yd bird in reality is prob 45 yards. 

How big does a pheasant look at 70+.?

Much bigger than a clay at 80 + yards..

Now that really is taking the proverbial  , to knowingly and deliberately go out undergunned just to prove that low game can be brought down with small loads ! I guarantee if I fire enough times I can fetch one down with a break barrel air gun, hellllllllo. 

Agreed this .410 stuff sucks, I had a hushpower .410 for a while and using 12g subs it was ok for static rabbit at up to 20 ish yards but useless for pigeon or crows when in flight, you could hear the shot hit and birds fly on or birds brought down but never killed outright.  Non sub cartridges have more punch but to use on pheasant is unethical unless the birds are unsportingly close. Loads of BS spouted about how capable .410 are...

 

[Hamster]

Much bigger than a clay at 80 + yards..

Agreed this .410 stuff sucks, I had a hushpower .410 for a while and using 12g subs it was ok for static rabbit at up to 20 ish yards but useless for pigeon or crows when in flight, you could hear the shot hit and birds fly on or birds brought down but never killed outright.  Non sub cartridges have more punch but to use on pheasant is unethical unless the birds are unsportingly close. Loads of BS spouted about how capable .410 are...

They say 410 is the gun for experts, I think it does a fair job for egomaniacal bullsh*tters too.  :lol: :lol: