Well - someone has picked a side...

[ExSCA]

Fairly lengthy article on the Clay Shooting magazine website. 

http://www.clay-shooting.com/features/expose-has-the-cpsa-spent-over-40000-disciplining-lifetime-member-clive-hames/

 

[paul b]

Whats scary for a simpleton like me after reading that,is it looks like if you do the right thing and stand up for yourself there is a fair chance your going to have to find some serious dosh to back yourself up in court.

And people wonder why ordinary folk dont wont to get onvolved in the politics. 

 

[Les53]

So! We have Kitson and Hames, can they both be wrong? This going to do no good for the cpsa, it will not benefit the members in any way that I can see. I've seen bun fights in bakeries that are better run....and with less trouble.

 

[Sian]

Whats scary for a simpleton like me after reading that,is it looks like if you do the right thing and stand up for yourself there is a fair chance your going to have to find some serious dosh to back yourself up in court.

And people wonder why ordinary folk dont wont to get onvolved in the politics. 

I agree.  Also I am quite often on the CPSA website but I don't know any of the happenings that seem to go on.  What I am saying is I am quite nosey but am still in the dark.  So I imagine most people are completely unaware of what has been going on.  About time I think that the shooting press started opening things up a bit.

 

[Nick Selby]

.....and people wonder why the sport cannot become more professional. It's not difficult to see why.

 

[Jan Powell]

In the interests of fairness I have asked Nick Fellows to formally respond to this article.

If I receive a reply I will post it for other members information.

 

[CharlesP]

I have a £20 note here that can soon find its way to any fund that may be set up to aid Mr Hames. While I cannot claim to know the ins and outs of this one something stinks.

I don't know where the smell is coming from but I am beginning to feel quite strongly that things need thoroughly and impartially investigating, with any rotten apples that may be discovered being consigned to the recycling bin.

 

[Sian]

I have a £20 note here that can soon find its way to any fund that may be set up to aid Mr Hames. While I cannot claim to know the ins and outs of this one something stinks.

I don't know where the smell is coming from but I am beginning to feel quite strongly that things need thoroughly and impartially investigating, with any rotten apples that may be discovered being consigned to the recycling bin.

Me too.

 

[Les53]

Me too.

And me!

 

[Xaphan]

a governing body being corrupt?? i don't believe it...........

 

[schmokinn]

I have a £20 note here that can soon find its way to any fund that may be set up to aid Mr Hames. While I cannot claim to know the ins and outs of this one something stinks.

I don't know where the smell is coming from but I am beginning to feel quite strongly that things need thoroughly and impartially investigating, with any rotten apples that may be discovered being consigned to the recycling bin.

i would quite happily donate to a fund for this.

after not getting a response to emails i called and ended up speaking to NF who was not forthcoming with the information requested and basically tried to fob me off,so i took a different tack and asked for some other information on the same vane and was asked "would you understand it" my response to this was that if i didn't i was sure i could find somebody that would to explain it to me ....i think this amply displays the attitude of our CEO.

surely as members we all have a right to question the actions of the board

i seem to remember him responding to me on here in the past maybe he would like to comment?

 

[Les53]

i would quite happily donate to a fund for this.

after not getting a response to emails i called and ended up speaking to NF who was not forthcoming with the information requested and basically tried to fob me off,so i took a different tack and asked for some other information on the same vane and was asked "would you understand it" my response to this was that if i didn't i was sure i could find somebody that would to explain it to me ....i think this amply displays the attitude of our CEO.

surely as members we all have a right to question the actions of the board

i seem to remember him responding to me on here in the past maybe he would like to comment?

Dont hold your breath Mark! Oh.....and don't rock the flippin boat, you're a committee man now, you need to tow the party line and all that! ??

Looks as though Nicola has gone into her "ninja mode" as she used call it on here!?

 

[RobertBeard]

after not getting a response to emails i called and ended up speaking to NF who was not forthcoming with the information requested and basically tried to fob me off,so i took a different tack and asked for some other information on the same vane and was asked "would you understand it" my response to this was that if i didn't i was sure i could find somebody that would to explain it to me ....i think this amply displays the attitude of our CEO.

surely as members we all have a right to question the actions of the board

I meant to start with saying how rude and arrogant of the CEO to presume that you don't have the intelligence to understand the matter if he chose to explain it!

Unfortunately the Board of Directors have been properly appointed under the Articles of Association.  They are then duty bound to act in the best interests of the company until the next AGM when they can be questioned on the directors'  report and the audited accounts of the company as they represent the results in words and figures on the performance of the Board of Directors to whom the CEO is responsible.  That the Articles have been able to be changed in such an unsatisfactory manner is down to the members' apathy in allowing them to be passed.  As we keep saying we have got what we deserved!

So if anyone is attending the AGM next week then that's the time to give them all a hard time over the legal costs in the accounts as there has been no explanation given in the Chairman or Directors' report.  Unfortunately, if the questioning is not allowed or there is an inadequate response then there is no opportunity to make any proposals at the AGM like a vote of no confidence in the Chairman and/or Directors as insufficient or no notice of such a resolution will have been given. If they fail to allow questions on the accounts and fail to answer them then that will be another opportunity for complaints against the directors to whoever is felt appropriate.

Basically it seems that there is a strong likelihood that legal expenses will be incurred if anyone chooses to be critical of anything that the Board do when perhaps there should be more thought towards alternative dispute resolution, negotiation etc to resolve differences when, after all, this has all been about what is best for the Association and I contend that spending £40k on legal expenses is not good use of the members' funds.

The appeal hearing seems to have been a farce in terms of fairness as to what took place, who heard the appeal and what evidence and discussion was allowed if the linked report above is an accurate reflection of the proceedings!

The only opportunity to make any sort of change is for someone to stand against Bobbett at his next time for re-election and for the members to vote for the challenger!

 

[Sian]

With the greatest respect I am personally tired of hearing we get what we deserve.  Of the thousands of CPSA members how many do you think have any knowledge of the history of past problems and indeed present problems.  How many understand the intricacies of how it works, how it should work and what their role is in all of that.  When I voted last I did it going on information from people I trusted and thought knew better than I.  I had access to those who know the history.  So many will not know and very likely if they can be bothered to vote would do so without deep thought - that is a reality.  Some might even think voting isn't that important or relevant to them - they shoot, they get insurance and they can look at their averages - it doesn't affect their daily lives.  Change if people want it comes from organised collective movement that has to be lead by those with authoritative, respected histories.  Individuals alone don't do well.

 

[schmokinn]

With the greatest respect I am personally tired of hearing we get what we deserve.  Of the thousands of CPSA members how many do you think have any knowledge of the history of past problems and indeed present problems.  How many understand the intricacies of how it works, how it should work and what their role is in all of that.  When I voted last I did it going on information from people I trusted and thought knew better than I.  I had access to those who know the history.  So many will not know and very likely if they can be bothered to vote would do so without deep thought - that is a reality.  Some might even think voting isn't that important or relevant to them - they shoot, they get insurance and they can look at their averages - it doesn't affect their daily lives.  Change if people want it comes from organised collective movement that has to be lead by those with authoritative, respected histories.  Individuals alone don't do well.

personally i think that deserves a round of applause!

are you good with money and would you like the job?

 

[RobertBeard]

Sian

Unfortunately this is the sort of thing that happens when members are disinterested in something like the CPSA. There are usually those that will use such disinterest to advantage.  

It is quite usual for pressure groups, in the know, to start small and either they will grow or wither on the vine depending on whether they try to grow or whether there is insufficient interest, enthusiasm, money or time for a fight.

I would have thought that the CPSA have upset enough regions by now for the issues to have become reasonably widely known and discussed at grounds, county and regional meetings and on fora such as this.  In that light it seems we are happy at what is being done in our name.  Nice to see that a shooting journal has now come out openly to be critical of what has happened.  That will spread the word some more.

I agree that whether a director is deemed to have been elected if he has stood unopposed or not and whether he should then become chairman or not having previously been outvoted is a technical legal subject but the record of the hearing and appeal must strike you as unfair.  

 

[Doctor Lecter]

we the paying members are the cpsa , not  nf and his band of very special friends ,   patronising   little sh*te . 

 

[Sian]

Sian

Unfortunately this is the sort of thing that happens when members are disinterested in something like the CPSA. There are usually those that will use such disinterest to advantage.  

It is quite usual for pressure groups, in the know, to start small and either they will grow or wither on the vine depending on whether they try to grow or whether there is insufficient interest, enthusiasm, money or time for a fight.

I would have thought that the CPSA have upset enough regions by now for the issues to have become reasonably widely known and discussed at grounds, county and regional meetings and on fora such as this.  In that light it seems we are happy at what is being done in our name.  Nice to see that a shooting journal has now come out openly to be critical of what has happened.  That will spread the word some more.

I agree that whether a director is deemed to have been elected if he has stood unopposed or not and whether he should then become chairman or not having previously been outvoted is a technical legal subject but the record of the hearing and appeal must strike you as unfair.  

On your last point, totally unfair and I do not support what they have done and I offered money to help his cause. I also agree as stated in one of my posts that it's about time the shooting press reported on these things thus giving a totally clueless body of people a chance to be proactive if they want to.  We hear all the time from more "in the know" people that we have got what we deserve and they are tired of basically warning us but I don't see any of them taking the lead.  You can blame the masses all you like but lots will not have access to relevant information.  

Im sure plenty of regions have had run ins but like I said until you act as one nothing will change.  

When you think about it who needs who in this relationship.

 

[sc_matt1]

Anyone gave the details of the AGM? I think I might go...