I would have "liked" the comment were it not for that , it will have to be left for another day but I'm afraid that's another one of those old wives tales. Yes we do often miss by feet (if not yards) but to all intents and purposes this is a game of inches, most good shots at any rate will miss most of their targets by less than a foot.Totally agree Hamster. 100%. But it's a mind thing. A "spreader load" won't hit more targets, we miss by feet, not inches.
It's a comfort thing. I've got every choke under the sun, but spend more time changing the bloody things than concentrating on the targets. The thought is 3 shells, reduces my thinking.
Widest patterning cartridge?
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Have a word with Will then, he is digging his patterns out tomorrow..............he might just have one for knitting that blanket that you need !It's all in the mind.....I know. But when I'm AA class and shooting fixed chokes and 1 shell I'll pack all this in. Until then....I need a comfort blanket!
balltrap
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There might be a delay Will has lost his spade ! and the problem with the blanket has been covered !
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
Sorry, needed to be in front of my office PC for this..
Tightest cartridge i used was a Clever T3, 28g, 7 UK shot. At 15 yards it had a 10" diameter pattern.
Other examples, plas wad at 15 yards:
Fiocchi FBlu, 28g, 7uk shot = 12" pattern
Hull Pro One, 28g, 8 shot = 14" pattern
Most average 28g, 8 shot shells are around 16"
Hull ProPiston 28g, 9 shot = 20"
Express 21g fibre 7.5 shot = 21"
Hope this helps..
Tightest cartridge i used was a Clever T3, 28g, 7 UK shot. At 15 yards it had a 10" diameter pattern.
Other examples, plas wad at 15 yards:
Fiocchi FBlu, 28g, 7uk shot = 12" pattern
Hull Pro One, 28g, 8 shot = 14" pattern
Most average 28g, 8 shot shells are around 16"
Hull ProPiston 28g, 9 shot = 20"
Express 21g fibre 7.5 shot = 21"
Hope this helps..
Apologies Dan, Pro Pistons are NEARLY as wide spreading as the Express. However, for all their hype, high cost and tiny pellets I had hoped for more value from them.
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schmokinn
Well-known member
Geordieboy
Well-known member
Many thanks Will. Very much appreciated. As Hamster says, we miss by inches, I'd be happy with another 4"-6".
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Apologies, all those were done with Perazzi and half choke.
Although I rationalise the difference as half that. Imagine you are shooting a rabbit and just missing it fractionally in front. A pattern that is 6" bigger (from another shell) only gives you 3" radially, i.e. from the centre of your shot. So, the super dooper spreading shell maybe allows you an error the size of a midi. This is why i don't open up for close targets as the chance of me getting lazy wont make up for the tiny real advantage. The sad truth is patterns only really make a difference way down range i feel.Many thanks Will. Very much appreciated. As Hamster says, we miss by inches, I'd be happy with another 4"-6".
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Geordieboy
Well-known member
Yes Will, I agree with all that has been said. But the exercise here was for me to change a shell instead choke. The only one I don't have is SKEET!!
It's about me thinking less on the choke and more on the target.
5yds-15yds? BIOR.
20yds-50yds 8shot.
50yds+ Tight shell with 7shot.
Tis' all in the mind.
Thanks for your detailed findings. Much appreciated
It's about me thinking less on the choke and more on the target.
5yds-15yds? BIOR.
20yds-50yds 8shot.
50yds+ Tight shell with 7shot.
Tis' all in the mind.
Thanks for your detailed findings. Much appreciated
Geordieboy
Well-known member
For what it's worth, my Perazzi is Teagued, with 18.4 bores, but I get the feeling that fixed choke Perazzis' pattern tighter. I want to shoot 2 x 3/4 and be done with it.
schmokinn
Well-known member
Yes Will, I agree with all that has been said. But the exercise here was for me to change a shell instead choke. The only one I don't have is SKEET!!
It's about me thinking less on the choke and more on the target.
5yds-15yds? BIOR.
20yds-50yds 8shot.
50yds+ Tight shell with 7shot.
Tis' all in the mind.
Thanks for your detailed findings. Much appreciated
I had an MXS 18.4 bore fixed teagued 1/2-1/2...Bior good to at least 30m for most targets,Piston good to 50M+ and some 61/2 fitasc extreme range sovereigns if you ever think you need them....i carried a box around for months before using any.
Judging by the breaks at distance it seemed pretty tight.
Expect it to be the same for the MX2000s
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Geordieboy
Well-known member
I've been shooting 3/8 - 5/8 at 90% of everything and putting a cylinder and 7/8 in my pocket, for everything else. Works with the shells I use a treat. I'm happy with that.....But I'm a bloody engineer and over think most things to the infuriation of my rather wonderful coach .....hence the wish to reduce said complication....at least a little anyhow 
.....hence the wish to reduce said complication....at least a little anyhow 
Cosmicblue
Well-known member
I've stopped worrying about it Steve (so the inspirational coach is correct!) - as you know my DSR is fixed with Perazzi's amusing interpretation of 1/2 and 1/4 which corresponds to 'vapourised' and 'smoked' so suspected to be very tight. From an engineering point of view forcing 2-300 soft lead balls down a narrow tube with a constriction at the far end using high explosive is highly likely to result in a bunch of pellets that are no longer quite as perfectly spherical so not flying quite straight, so every single pattern produced will be different - zero consistency.I've been shooting 3/8 - 5/8 at 90% of everything and putting a cylinder and 7/8 in my pocket, for everything else. Works with the shells I use a treat. I'm happy with that.....But I'm a bloody engineer and over think most things to the infuriation of my rather wonderful coach
The very nature of a shot shell is that the shot is in close physical contact with it's neighbours so from the moment of detonation it's going badly wrong and getting rapidly worse in terms of delivered -to-the-target pellet quality. It's perfectly possible that we could miss a target having got the target-lead absolutely spot-on but the pattern for that particular shot had holes in the wrong places....so we can agonise over shot size and choke constriction for ever without finding a conclusive answer.
For myself I've figured with the above that maybe the shells with the hardest shot (i.e. resistance to being misshaped) might help, however with my limited ability there is little difference between the most expensive shells and the budget brands and thus for me choke/cartridge/shot is largely a head-game.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Reading the above posts; I too as an engineer suffered “paralysis by analysis” in my early years. It’s great to keep a solid eye on facts and the basic laws of physics, but really not to over think it and certainly not let it distract you. (Self imposed mental distraction being the worst enemy of a shooter, as evidenced by some of the best shots who aren’t the most academic types).
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Just shoot the 2 X 3/4 chokes you want to and your current shells for a couple of shoots and forget about choke and think about the birds ... see what happens I doubt your scores will suffer
Geordieboy
Well-known member
Shot Orston + Northampton Sunday. Both cracking testing shoots. 50 birds in my score was all to h3ll at Orston so changed to 7/8 + Full Choke. I shot those for the rest of the day. That really showed how far you can break clays with 8 shot.
Light Full shredded everything with the shells I used. Vapourised rabbits at 25yds. Long edgy stuff blitzed. Full choke........I knocked lumps out of everything. Out of 150 targets, 75 were shot at with the full and I broke them like I was using a more open choke. Bottom barrel with 7/8....shredded.
My score? 78/100 at a hard shoot. 2 targets under my average. Disadvantaged on close stuff??.......a little. I'd have had a better breaks with a more open pattern.....but I wouldn't have scored anymore. I hit all of the close stuff, and missed the 'Big' targets. I missed 13 over 3 stands.
So all in all, am going to buy some more open shells and shoot 2 x 3/4 and stick with it. The hammering the clays took was a definite boost in personal confidence!
Light Full shredded everything with the shells I used. Vapourised rabbits at 25yds. Long edgy stuff blitzed. Full choke........I knocked lumps out of everything. Out of 150 targets, 75 were shot at with the full and I broke them like I was using a more open choke. Bottom barrel with 7/8....shredded.
My score? 78/100 at a hard shoot. 2 targets under my average. Disadvantaged on close stuff??.......a little. I'd have had a better breaks with a more open pattern.....but I wouldn't have scored anymore. I hit all of the close stuff, and missed the 'Big' targets. I missed 13 over 3 stands.
So all in all, am going to buy some more open shells and shoot 2 x 3/4 and stick with it. The hammering the clays took was a definite boost in personal confidence!
Geordieboy
Well-known member
So then. Shot the Perazzi Grand Prix at Mid Wales yesterday. Cracking shoot. Nutbeam presented tough and steady but easy to see targets from 15yds to 70yds. Awesome course. Far better than me for sure.
I stuck to the 2x 3/4 chokes but added some Fiocchi F3 Biors to my pocket. The breaks were simply outstanding. At 20yds, a battue simply disappears. But more than that I gained confidence to shoot tight chokes. I spent more time studying the targets and popped in the shell for the job. Easy.
Would I have missed any with my normal shells? I doubt it. But my head is now clear going forwards and that means a lot.
Thanks for your input everyone.
I stuck to the 2x 3/4 chokes but added some Fiocchi F3 Biors to my pocket. The breaks were simply outstanding. At 20yds, a battue simply disappears. But more than that I gained confidence to shoot tight chokes. I spent more time studying the targets and popped in the shell for the job. Easy.
Would I have missed any with my normal shells? I doubt it. But my head is now clear going forwards and that means a lot.
Thanks for your input everyone.
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Doug Pinnegar
Well-known member
I've been going through similar. although not as brave. I've been using a pair of Teague 3/8ths and as long as the gun is in the right place, they really do work.
Geordieboy
Well-known member
I know of a world champion that only shoots 2 x Halfs and also several England team chaps that shoot chokes not so tight. They do alright.
Cosmicblue
Well-known member
Just started on 1250 Jocker 7.5/24g fibre carts (from Claverdon Cartridges), seem to be noticeably looser than using the Jocker Super Flash plaswads I've just finished but still killed targets out to very respectable distances - I like em a lot and £185/1000 isn't a bad either these days.
chippy
Well-known member
I also know a world sporting champion who uses 1/2 and 1/2. You never need more.I know of a world champion that only shoots 2 x Halfs and also several England team chaps that shoot chokes not so tight. They do alright.
