Actual shot sizes ??

[jwpzx9r]

Yes of course it is all very interesting , take perazman's comment above .

Eley list No.7 shot as 2.4mm dia  and No. 7.5 shot as 2.3mm .

So depending on if you are using English or Continental/ American Shot size designation it all depends on the true shot diameter and the true number of pellets per ounce / 28gram .

So weigh out an ounce of your favoured load and then count the pellet total . Simples Meerkats.

A friend commented only today how impressed he was with Cheddite Smart Strike  7.5s for DTL , but when he dissected one he found the shot size was  2.4mm English 7's.

That would be standard for an Italian made cartridge though would it not? Buyer beware I say or stick with British made cartridges.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

don't get me started on antimony   ?

so just what does your apparent dissatisfaction with divorce have to do with shot sizes?

And of course embedded in this morass is the unresolved to my knowledge matter of "illegal" factory carts disqualifying shooters  in international competitions.  A matter easily attended to by a simple process similar to the Formula 1 practice of tire manufacturers bidding for exclusive rights to supply for some given time.  TabA/SlotB 

 

[MartynB]

Yes confused. Surely a shot size is a precise measurement and i have never read anywhere that there is any degree of tolerance ? Maybe there is

I used to do a lot of general chemical powder processing and blending . We had a  vibrating classifying sieve in the lab into which you could slot multiple screens in any suitable increment to split a sample into its particle sizes . It would be interesting to take a random sample of say 10 cartridges of brand A , Shell B , and then see what the average  distribution  of pellet size through something like precise  50 micron increment screens was , +\- nominal . If I was buying shot in from an external supplier I’d sure as hell be doing that on  just to see what I was buying .

 I can’t imagine anything made as a  cheap chuck away , one time, commodity like lead shot can be manufactured to size +\-  zero . 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

I used to do a lot of general chemical powder processing and blending . We had a  vibrating classifying sieve in the lab into which you could slot multiple screens in any suitable increment to split a sample into its particle sizes . It would be interesting to take a random sample of say 10 cartridges of brand A , Shell B , and then see what the average  distribution  of pellet size through something like precise  50 micron increment screens was , +\- nominal . If I was buying shot in from an external supplier I’d sure as hell be doing that on  just to see what I was buying .

 I can’t imagine anything made as a  cheap chuck away , one time, commodity like lead shot can be manufactured to size +\-  zero . 

chuck away yes        CHEAP  ?   :negative:

 

[MartynB]

chuck away yes        CHEAP  ?   :negative:

Yes , cheap  lead is about £1600 a tonne , that’s £ 1.60 a kg or near enough 5 pence per cartridge in raw materials . Given that a finished cartridge  can retail at around  18 to 20 pence, I don’t see  the  opportunity in a whole lot of of extra on costs converting it to ultra precise shot . Near enough is probably good enough . 

 

[jwpzx9r]

I used to do a lot of general chemical powder processing and blending . We had a  vibrating classifying sieve in the lab into which you could slot multiple screens in any suitable increment to split a sample into its particle sizes . It would be interesting to take a random sample of say 10 cartridges of brand A , Shell B , and then see what the average  distribution  of pellet size through something like precise  50 micron increment screens was , +\- nominal . If I was buying shot in from an external supplier I’d sure as hell be doing that on  just to see what I was buying .

 I can’t imagine anything made as a  cheap chuck away , one time, commodity like lead shot can be manufactured to size +\-  zero . 

I would say that is exactly how the shot manufacturers go about sorting their shot sizes nothing more nothing less. As to tolerance I think the shot manufacturers have their process down to some sort of precision it is not all guess work, from their lead melt they will get a shot size variation covering most of the popular sizes for cartridge manufacturers.  After sorting anything that does not come up to snuff will be bashed into game cartridges where the actual shot size is under no scrutiny whatsoever 

 

[MartynB]

Please don’t tell me my £360/ 1000  sleek , black , high base , jet propelled , pheasant terminators have sub standard shot !!! 

I imagined the shot would be precision ground by intense , and stern looking master technicians on CNC controlled machinery supervised by a Black Belt in Lean Sigma . 

Now you tell me a bloke called Bert is shovelling  up the mis-shapes , and me being a mug , I’m falling for the  claims made on the sexy metallic foiled packaging 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

wonder what the profit margin is   per 1000  shells      ?    so many variables  .

 

[ips]

wonder what the profit margin is   per 1000  shells      ?    so many variables  .

Very little i believe. And going off the cost of home loads i believe it.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Very little i believe. And going off the cost of home loads i believe it.

But you're buying small quantities of components at retail  (or near) prices, so with all the shippers and middlemen inbetween you are likely paying substantially more that twice what a dedicated production does.  The cart retailer margin may be small but the cost differential to the shooter is all that is of consequence.  Prolly.

 

[MartynB]

wonder what the profit margin is   per 1000  shells      ?    so many variables  .

I don’t think it’s massive . The most competitive prices around here are at a shooting school / clay ground . It probably makes sense for them to take a few quid a thousand on huge volumes , and also get the footfall through the shooting stands . 

On a slightly different note , about 4 years ago one of the last jobs I did before retiring was in Texas . I treated myself to an afternoon on an indoor commercial shooting range in Dallas  . They sold reloads . They wanted to talk you into using a Thompson or an Uzi .  Pay your cash ,  rip through a few hundred rounds , they had the lead for scrap , the brass for reloading ,  quite a clever business model . The Dustbins full of brass behind the shooting booths said it was a successful business as well . 

 

[Garwood]

Cheddite Universal Trap fibre 28gm 7.5's marked as 2.4mm (330 pellets)

Cheddite Rapeed fibre 27gm 7.5 also marked as 2.4mm (395 pellets)

Get your head around that one!

PM.

Just cut a Rapeed open and make it 2.1 -2.2mm shot in a 2.4mm marked cartridge.Soft lead too by the amount in front of cones!

They break clays ok though.

 

[Will Hewland]

I’ve always liked the almost clear casings on certain shells. Hold them up to a light and you see what you’ve got pretty much. 

 

[MartynB]

Like these ?  

 

[jwpzx9r]

But you're buying small quantities of components at retail  (or near) prices, so with all the shippers and middlemen inbetween you are likely paying substantially more that twice what a dedicated production does.  The cart retailer margin may be small but the cost differential to the shooter is all that is of consequence.  Prolly.

Living in France we get some reasonable prices for cartridges... mostly French made... but of course the discerning shooters want to use Italian or Spanish cartridges. Now some say there is little or no profit in cartridge sales but we have an enterprising member of a club nearby who buys Clever T2 cartridges and sells them cheaper than I could by them in Italy ... and not just a few cents we are talking 20€ per thousand cheaper than I was seeing them in Italy. In my book it is all about how many you shift per week balanced against what you have to buy to stock your shop/ shooting ground. Not rocket science you might say but people have to buy their cartridges somewhere and there must be many thousands shot everyday of the week somebody is making money! I just do not believe the bullsh*te that shops only sell these things as a loss leader that is total merde in my opinion... oh I only wanted 500 cartridges and came away with a new BerBrownPazzi. Cartridges are the one thing that you have to buy every week to shoot... there is the clue, if a retailer cannot make a profit selling the essential item of shooting there is something very wrong with their business. 

 

[Hamster]

Living in France we get some reasonable prices for cartridges... mostly French made... but of course the discerning shooters want to use Italian or Spanish cartridges. Now some say there is little or no profit in cartridge sales but we have an enterprising member of a club nearby who buys Clever T2 cartridges and sells them cheaper than I could by them in Italy ... and not just a few cents we are talking 20€ per thousand cheaper than I was seeing them in Italy. In my book it is all about how many you shift per week balanced against what you have to buy to stock your shop/ shooting ground. Not rocket science you might say but people have to buy their cartridges somewhere and there must be many thousands shot everyday of the week somebody is making money! I just do not believe the bullsh*te that shops only sell these things as a loss leader that is total merde in my opinion... oh I only wanted 500 cartridges and came away with a new BerBrownPazzi. Cartridges are the one thing that you have to buy every week to shoot... there is the clue, if a retailer cannot make a profit selling the essential item of shooting there is something very wrong with their business. 

Based on the simple reality that there can be a difference of up to around £15 per thou for the same shell bought from different stores, you can categorically state that the notion that they only do it as a “service” is porkypies.

 

[squimp]

A pal of mine used to sell serious quantities of cartridges as a side-line. He was  a registered RFD and had the space to do it.

I think he has just stopped the operation and coincidentally I may see him tomorrow -  so I wont feel guilty if ask him what the rough profit margins were on the various types of cartridge.....

 

[jwpzx9r]

Based on the simple reality that there can be a difference of up to around £15 per thou for the same shell bought from different stores, you can categorically state that the notion that they only do it as a “service” is porkypies.

From my perspective It may well be that there is not a huge profit... but the simple fact is nobody can shoot without them, discounting reloads and I am not that sure that reloading is the way to go for anybody shooting a couple of hundred clay targets every weekend. I would say that there is enough to make them well worth the effort of selling them ... well they sell themselves really as said you cannot shoot without them.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I can only relate what I see around.  Regardless of the cost of new carts vs/ reloads (whatever that may be) many people here still reload.  They do so for many reasons and some shoot lots and some shoot not so lots.  

Takes all kinds, eh?