Adjustable comb...Is it worth it?

[Adam17]

I think you mean a high comb.

. yep that's the one! ill edit now so I dont continue to look a plonka...

In my defence I was multitasking :wink:  or rather, I was trying haha

 

[Martinj]

You can certainly ascertain whether a gun is practical for you to shoot in two minutes, with the help of somebody half-knowledgable or a mirror if you are half-knowledgable. The basis of it is simply getting your eye in line with and just above the rib. That bit is pretty damn simple and is actually 90% of the matter, in a pure mechanical sense. 

However, as with all things, the last 10% is the part that makes 90% of the difference in terms of elevating your performance from ordinary to nearer the best you can be. So then all the other elements come in to it, such as how the pad contacts the shoulder pocket, the angle of your elbows, trigger hand grip, how your face weight is applied to the stock, how the gun sits when you reach extreme right or left swing and more. These final elements mostly contribute to sheer comfort which allows you to forget the gun, making it feel part of you, so that you can forget it and think only about the target. 

Not sure I can do that myself in 10 minutes :smile:

I have never had a gun fitted and I'm getting curious, maybe next time I buy a gun. . . I do know what feels right, I think I'm more or less "standard" apart from being a bit on the long side.

 

[Adam17]

Can an adjustable stock alter 'cast'? I think not. All an adjustable stock does, is align the eye to the rib.

Im sure they have the comb that goes left and right aswell as up & down, is that not classed as cast? (or just 'cast' for the face?)

Not sure I can do that myself in 10 minutes :smile:

I have never had a gun fitted and I'm getting curious, maybe next time I buy a gun. . . I do know what feels right, I think I'm more or less "standard" apart from being a bit on the long side.

Hiya, there are plenty of videos online, and text on the net about gun fitting. Just takes some watching/reading.

I also guess it depends how far you want to take shooting... For me, I just enjoy hitting a few clays on my day off, and havnt really thought about competitions (im only a few months into shooting, so this may change over the years to come) So for me, spending big money on fitting, shaping, changing a gun just isn't valid - not on my care home wages anyway.

 

[Martinj]

Hiya, there are plenty of videos online, and text on the net about gun fitting. Just takes some watching/reading.

I also guess it depends how far you want to take shooting...

Yes I have been looking online, I added a spacer under my recoil pad some while ago and feel that my gun is a reasonable fit but I want to keep the scores going in the right direction i.e. upwards. When all is said and done on the subject there's nothing like plenty of practise.

 

[Adam17]

Yes I have been looking online, I added a spacer under my recoil pad some while ago and feel that my gun is a reasonable fit but I want to keep the scores going in the right direction i.e. upwards. When all is said and done on the subject there's nothing like plenty of practise.

very true, practice is the way forward.

Id argue that even if you practised enough with an ill-fitting gun you can be just as good,.

 

[Martinj]

very true, practice is the way forward.

Id argue that even if you practised enough with an ill-fitting gun you can be just as good,.

or nearly as good :smile:  I have tried friends guns including ones that are way too short and even left handed, I always manage to hit a few.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Comb offset is the new cast unless maybe for the deformed

As everyone knows I am a total fan of adjustables but obviously if you don't know what you're doing or have someone helping you that does then what Hamster says is spot on

 

[tiptop]

Im sure they have the comb that goes left and right aswell as up & down, is that not classed as cast? (or just 'cast' for the face?)

No its not cast. All you are doing, as you say is moving the comb. To alter the actual cast you need to bend the stock. If a stock has 10mm of cast, no matter how you move the 'adjustable comb', the stock will still have 10mm of cast. Moving the comb left/right is doing just that, and aligning the eye to the rib.

 

[chippy]

How?

Take your empty gun out into the garden. Imagine a mid height left to right crosser mount your gun and take the shot with both eyes closed now open your right eye ,(assuming you're right handed) and check if your eye is central to the rib and at the height you like to see. Now do the same to imaginary targets in all directions and angles. 

How?

Take your empty gun out into the garden. Imagine a mid height left to right crosser mount your gun and take the shot with both eyes closed now open your right eye ,(assuming you're right handed) and check if your eye is central to the rib and at the height you like to see. Now do the same to imaginary targets in all directions and angles. 

How?

Take your empty gun out into the garden. Imagine a mid height left to right crosser mount your gun and take the shot with both eyes closed now open your right eye ,(assuming you're right handed) and check if your eye is central to the rib and at the height you like to see. Now do the same to imaginary targets in all directions and angles. 

 

[jonz]

No its not cast. All you are doing, as you say is moving the comb. To alter the actual cast you need to bend the stock. If a stock has 10mm of cast, no matter how you move the 'adjustable comb', the stock will still have 10mm of cast. Moving the comb left/right is doing just that, and aligning the eye to the rib.

So what does cast do if not aligning the eye to the rib?

 

[chippy]

How?

Take your empty gun out into the garden. Imagine a mid height left to right crosser mount your gun and take the shot with both eyes closed now open your right eye ,(assuming you're right handed) and check if your eye is central to the rib and at the height you like to see. Now do the same to imaginary targets in all directions and angles. 

 

[rocky]

You can certainly ascertain whether a gun is practical for you to shoot in two minutes, with the help of somebody half-knowledgable or a mirror if you are half-knowledgable. The basis of it is simply getting your eye in line with and just above the rib. That bit is pretty damn simple and is actually 90% of the matter, in a pure mechanical sense. 

However, as with all things, the last 10% is the part that makes 90% of the difference in terms of elevating your performance from ordinary to nearer the best you can be. So then all the other elements come in to it, such as how the pad contacts the shoulder pocket, the angle of your elbows, trigger hand grip, how your face weight is applied to the stock, how the gun sits when you reach extreme right or left swing and more. These final elements mostly contribute to sheer comfort which allows you to forget the gun, making it feel part of you, so that you can forget it and think only about the target. 

May I ask what the angle of your elbow actually affects? Mine drops if I’m not making a conscious effort to keep it up but I’m not entirely sure why it is I’m meant to keep it raised..

 

[Will Hewland]

May I ask what the angle of your elbow actually affects? Mine drops if I’m not making a conscious effort to keep it up but I’m not entirely sure why it is I’m meant to keep it raised..

Not that angle.. it’s the amount of bend. Too bent or too extended both can hinder smooth movement and inherently are uncomfortable. Mainly it’s the forend arm that makes the difference 

 

[Hamster]

Put it this way, most if not all famous names would have won most if not all of their titles with guns that were never "fitted" in the classic sense, not by a gunsmith anyway. Yes of course as they get better many would have made sure certain things were to their absolute liking such as the length, type of recoil pad, comb height, etc, BUT these things are often easily achieved via picking the correct standard gun off the rack (with the exception of length which is an easy peasy fix). You can even get used to the "wrong" + or- 5mm length - how do I know ? Experience and having picked up thousands of other guns, I'm afraid "fit" is not nearly as black an art as some will have you believe, very occasionally I'd pick a gun up and know instantly that there is no way I could shoot with it (Ed Solomon's K80 is one) but by and large even so called custom fitted Perazzi's I've picked up and shouldered come up nice enough, it's generally about one or two minor changes which YOU have to identify and TELL the stock man to carry out.

Absolute gun fit is only of critical importance to people who are in a position to win, close enough (comfort and good recoil management) is good enough, "gun fit" won't be the cause why you lost that shoot, there are at least half a dozen other factors to address first. 

Barrel weight and other dynamics are in my opinion more critical than millimeter perfect fit. You can overcome (at least temporarily) less than perfect gun fit with knowledge, you can't bypass lack of knowledge with perfect gun fit. 

 

[MJJ]

you can't bypass lack of knowledge with perfect gun fit. 

I beg to differ - I have walked past plenty of people with lack of knowledge and my gun fits me perfectly 

 

[Bebo]

very occasionally I'd pick a gun up and know instantly that there is no way I could shoot with it (Ed Solomon's K80 is one)

Funnily enough, Ed has shot my gun a couple of times when I've been up at Sporting Targets seeing him. He hates it. Shoots better with it from the hip than he does from the shoulder.

 

[jwpzx9r]

No its not cast. All you are doing, as you say is moving the comb. To alter the actual cast you need to bend the stock. If a stock has 10mm of cast, no matter how you move the 'adjustable comb', the stock will still have 10mm of cast. Moving the comb left/right is doing just that, and aligning the eye to the rib.

I am no expert but I really don't think that is right. If you have a gun with an adjustable comb and you put an angle on that comb you are changing the cast of the stock in relation to you the shooter, where you look and where the gun is pointing. Much the same as if you have a gun that has a stock with an adjustable comb and you put but plate adjuster on it and  Monte Carlo the stock you have changed the cast and drop at heel of the gun.... ??? 

 

[Hamster]

I am no expert but I really don't think that is right. If you have a gun with an adjustable comb and you put an angle on that comb you are changing the cast of the stock in relation to you the shooter, where you look and where the gun is pointing. Much the same as if you have a gun that has a stock with an adjustable comb and you put but plate adjuster on it and  Monte Carlo the stock you have changed the cast and drop at heel of the gun.... ??? 

It's a bit like putting a cushion under your bum to get a more optimum driving position, is it the same as using the lever, no of course not, but then using the lever will also (usually) push you forward somewhat so to compensate you end up having to either tilt the seat back or push the steering wheel forward.

Neither is wrong if it gets you from A to B - cast is the "bend" in the stock relative to the barrel which is there to compensate for our eyes not being in line with our shoulders but a good enough job can usually be made using adj combs providing the stock is not dead straight to begin with. 

One of the oft forgotten but main purposes of adj combs is to dial out discomfort or noticeable cheek slap during the recoil phase, the changes made may not necessarily be conducive to absolute so called "fit" (meaning you may, at least academically, lower or raise the POI by whatever amount but in practice this simply doesn't matter) because the end result will be worth it all the same.

It's a pity nobody's taken the bait ref my earlier post so I could bore you all with a few examples of famous wins (and winners) who did so with off the peg guns. 

 

[tiptop]

I am no expert but I really don't think that is right. If you have a gun with an adjustable comb and you put an angle on that comb you are changing the cast of the stock in relation to you the shooter, where you look and where the gun is pointing. Much the same as if you have a gun that has a stock with an adjustable comb and you put but plate adjuster on it and  Monte Carlo the stock you have changed the cast and drop at heel of the gun.... ??? 

We are talking adjustable comb here, not adjustable butt plate. If you take your straight edge down the centre line of your barrel and measure to the heel/toe of the gun it will be X. Now move the comb over, and take your straight edge and measure to the heel/toe of the gun, what is that measurement now? I'll have a little wager with you that it is exactly the same. So you haven't change the cast have you.

 

[tiptop]

So what does cast do if not aligning the eye to the rib?

Obviously cast does help with aligning the eye to the barrel, but moving the comb doesn't alter the cast.

Note, Hamsters point above about, bend, eyes, shoulder.

And Wonkos' point of off setting the comb.