Bad News, "it comes in threes"

[Bavarian]

Interesting, is it not in Germany that all you needed was an arms possession card costing 30 euros to own a shotgun for clay shooting.
what equipment cost thousands? do they not sell cheap second hand shotguns in Germany?

No, it is not. You have two choices to own a firearm. One is joining a club for at least one year, shoot at least one time a month with a club gun,
make a course for firearm safety, and after that you can ask for having your need confirmed
by the german shooting association for that certain discipline. With that paper you can apply for a firearms licence at your district office.
After several background checks they give you this licence and with that you are then allowed to buy a gun. But before you have also to proof to own a gunsafe which matches the EN-1143-1. And as a sports shooter you have to make sure to shoot regularly confirming your need.
The other way to proof your need for a gun is a hunting licence. you have to join a course (regular 6 month) with 6 different topics.
First test is theory, if you fail you have to restart and you are not alloewd to make the practical tests. Practical tests are interwiews on all 6 topics,
a gun safety test, shooting test with rifle and shotgun. If you miss one of those practical tests you have to wait 3 month and try again.
You have a background check to high levels before you are allowed to join the tests. With this certificate you can apply for a firearms licence.
After all that you are allowed to buy hunting guns (rifles, shotguns) and two handguns.
But you have to make sure to own a gunsafe as above. Every 3 years you have to renew your licence and background checks are done again.


Before 1973 it was easy to own a .22 rifle or a shotgun, if my information is correct.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Interesting, is it not in Germany that all you needed was an arms possession card costing 30 euros to own a shotgun for clay shooting.
what equipment cost thousands? do they not sell cheap second hand shotguns in Germany?

I will leave it to Bavarian to elaborate on the German rules, but in the Netherlands (next door to Germany and similar in licensing requirements, if stricter) you either need a firearms permission or a hunting permit. The latter requires nearly a year of classes, as well as live shotgun and rifle training, each of which will set you back a bundle, as do the exams. And of course you need actual opportunities to hunt.

For the firearms permission you have to be a member of a shooting club (clays in this instance) for over a year, get at least 18 "stamps" (which is shooting every three weeks at minimum) a year and most clubs will have both an "introduction period" of several months (meaning you are not yet an actual member for permission purposes) an obligation to follow a safety course. Some clubs charge for that course, some may not.

In both cases you will also need at least one safe (ammo and gun locked in separated compartments is a requirement). For the hunting route, you are easily a few grand in before obtaining the permit that will let you own a shotgun. The clay shooting sports route is cheaper by comparison, but the outlay is still substantial and likely over a grand spent before you get to buying a safe and a gun. So for those without disposable income, shooting clays doesn't strike me as a viable passtime, unless sacrifices are made.

 

[Bavarian]

Hunting course, test fees, fees for all the paperwork, gun safe will be about 4-5k €. Used gun for 50.- is the least expensive part

 

[FESkent]

No, it is not. You have two choices to own a firearm. One is joining a club for at least one year, shoot at least one time a month with a club gun,
make a course for firearm safety, and after that you can ask for having your need confirmed
by the german shooting association for that certain discipline. With that paper you can apply for a firearms licence at your district office.
After several background checks they give you this licence and with that you are then allowed to buy a gun. But before you have also to proof to own a gunsafe which matches the EN-1143-1. And as a sports shooter you have to make sure to shoot regularly confirming your need.
The other way to proof your need for a gun is a hunting licence. you have to join a course (regular 6 month) with 6 different topics.
First test is theory, if you fail you have to restart and you are not alloewd to make the practical tests. Practical tests are interwiews on all 6 topics,
a gun safety test, shooting test with rifle and shotgun. If you miss one of those practical tests you have to wait 3 month and try again.
You have a background check to high levels before you are allowed to join the tests. With this certificate you can apply for a firearms licence.
After all that you are allowed to buy hunting guns (rifles, shotguns) and two handguns.
But you have to make sure to own a gunsafe as above. Every 3 years you have to renew your licence and background checks are done again.


Before 1973 it was easy to own a .22 rifle or a shotgun, if my information is correct.

Thank for the information also found

https://erlangen.de/en/service/315

thankfully we do not have formal course or exam requirements here in the U.K.

 

[Daz W]

Putting the licence up to £400 might appear steep, but is it really? The most expensive fishing licence is £90.40 per year.

The argument for those on low incomes isn't the strongest in my opinion, or there are viable solutions. Shooting isn't a cheap sport. How many shooters are actually on minimum wage? Most shooters I know are in the 40% tax bracket at least. In my shooting group the only one who's just above minimum wage is also my FEO!!! No wonder they cant get anybody to fill the vacancies.

As for the OAPs. Simple. OAP discount. They do it for fishing licences, so why not shooting?

If/when they do put it up, then I expect a 12 week turnaround on my renewal. If the reason for increasing the fee is to recover the full cost of the process, then that's where the money should be spent. Not on reducing knife crime, or whatever reason they come up with next. Money should be spent on getting more people into the firearms licencing department, paying them a reasonable wage, and improving the process.

Medicals could also be revised. If I've had a grant or renewal in the last 5 years, then there is now a firearms marker on my medical record. This should then trigger an alert if I am then diagnosed with any relevant medical condition going forwards. So surely there should be no reason to submit a medical report on every renewal?

 

[FESkent]

Problem is not all GPs are engaging in the process so no guarantee every certificate holder has a medical marker.
Needs a contract change for GPs but that is very unlikely.
GPs will also quickly realise that they can up what they charge for the report.

Fishing licences are free for juniors can you see that happing for gun licences?

You still have to look at the historic reason why we have gun licences and hence why society at large contribute, as we do via are taxes.

 

[SBL]

I don’t think the proposed new cost is over the top at all as an existing shooter. I know how much I enjoy the sport, it’s a no brainier for me.
I could well imagine that to prospective new shooters, it’s a step too far for them to commit to.

 

[FESkent]

it’s not a proposed cost just rumour, it could be a lot more yet nobody knows. If they take the worst case, worst performing force it could be £800.

 

[Dave_3]

It's clear from this thread who has money and who doesn't. It's not just the increase in price that makes my piss itch it's the return you get for it. People are dreaming if they think it will improve the service. It's a stealth tax plane and simple. I have seen the fire service portion of council tax increased to improve services only for them to get worse. The vast majority of you reading this pay more for fire service today than you did 5 years ago. Yet the amount of staff and attendance times have drastically dropped. The emergency services simply find another way to prop up their budget and we all nod and follow like sheep.
I have 4 hobbies and they're not cheap. £400 at the time of renewal might be enough for me to pack it in

 

[PeeJay]

It's clear from this thread who has money and who doesn't. It's not just the increase in price that makes my piss itch it's the return you get for it. People are dreaming if they think it will improve the service. It's a stealth tax plane and simple. I have seen the fire service portion of council tax increased to improve services only for them to get worse. The vast majority of you reading this pay more for fire service today than you did 5 years ago. Yet the amount of staff and attendance times have drastically dropped. The emergency services simply find another way to prop up their budget and we all nod and follow like sheep.
I have 4 hobbies and they're not cheap. £400 at the time of renewal might be enough for me to pack it in

A lot of that is correct apart from your first sentence, which is naive and rather dismissive.

 

[k80ben]

It's clear from this thread who has money and who doesn't. It's not just the increase in price that makes my piss itch it's the return you get for it. People are dreaming if they think it will improve the service. It's a stealth tax plane and simple. I have seen the fire service portion of council tax increased to improve services only for them to get worse. The vast majority of you reading this pay more for fire service today than you did 5 years ago. Yet the amount of staff and attendance times have drastically dropped. The emergency services simply find another way to prop up their budget and we all nod and follow like sheep.
I have 4 hobbies and they're not cheap. £400 at the time of renewal might be enough for me to pack it in

I wouldn’t say you can tell if people have money or not by a thread social media tells a lie on who has money gees it tells a lie who’s actually good or not.

Opinions are fine if people walk away that’s a shame but the price rise is coming so we will see

 

[Welsh postie]

To be honest shooting was never a unexpensive sport to do when you go out every one or too weeks for clayshooting.
So the people on min wage didn´t shoot yesterday and won´t do it tomorrow.
But I agree: Higher costs won´t bring more people to the shooting grounds.

Yes but the extra cost goes on every shooter not just clay shooters

 

[bostonmick]

whilst the cost increase may not be the end of the world although i think some who have doctors charging a few hundred it may be a bit to far for some of the casual club shooters.I would want to see that all of this goes to licensing and not syphoned off to other areas and the process sees improvements. my county like many went over to online application and renewal to streamline the service but now have included a raft of paperwork again alongside the online stuff.also as the gp's put a mark on your medical records why do we have to get a report every time as if doctors have any concerns they inform the police.

 

[FESkent]

.also as the gp's put a mark on your medical records why do we have to get a report every time as if doctors have any concerns they inform the police.

Do they? and when applicants use a third party GP to complete the report they have no access to the applicants medical records so potentially no marker put on the applicants GP records that they own guns. Many now go to a third party GP because their own registered GP will not engage in the process. Then many do to save money if their registered GP fee is more than the commercial third party GP, of which their are now several offering the service,

Ironic is it not many are saying they will not mind paying full cost for a gun licence yet are not willing to pay their own registered GP fee, if more than the third party GP. Which must be a lot of applicants to be a profitable business, for the GPs that have setup business dedicated to offering the medical reports or they would not do it.

 

[bostonmick]

Do they? and when applicants use a third party GP to complete the report they have no access to the applicants medical records so potentially no marker put on the applicants GP records that they own guns. Many now go to a third party GP because their own registered GP will not engage in the process. Then many do to save money if their registered GP fee is more than the commercial third party GP, of which their are now several offering the service,

Ironic is it not many are saying they will not mind paying full cost for a gun licence yet are not willing to pay their own registered GP fee, if more than the third party GP. Which must be a lot of applicants to be a profitable business, for the GPs that have setup business dedicated to offering the medical reports or they would not do it.

then it should be placed on the gp's terms that they complete the police requirements. there is nothing on the form to place any responsibility on the gp all just tick boxes.

 

[FESkent]

then it should be placed on the gp's terms that they complete the police requirements. there is nothing on the form to place any responsibility on the gp all just tick boxes.

You would like to think so, however each GP practice is a business, with an NHS contract, so it would need a contract variation which the GP union, BMA are unlikely to support.

GPs can refuse to engage in the firearms certification process on grounds of conscientious objection because of religious or ethical beliefs. They must inform the police.

Reading below shows the police cannot be 100% certain that for every gun owner their GP will add the marker or notify them should that become necessary.

This stated that, whilst the legal responsibility for monitoring firearms holders rests with the police, doctors should use 'reasonable endeavours' to support the process.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-s...vice-provision/the-firearms-licensing-process