Birds Only or Competition?

[ips]

Agree classes are wrong, do away with classes and leave the choice of bunging in the kitty for a 1 out of 5 payout. Job done.

 

[PhilS]

Personally, I can only shoot BO.  Me, and the rest of the shooters that are non CPSA.

Why on earth would I chuck in the extra fiver when I have no chance (ability excluded) of winning a prize.

Yes I shoot competitively, against scores of those that I am with and that I know.

If you then say no BO, that, as mentioned above, will alienate all non CPSA shooters and reduce income for grounds and diminish the sport, yet again. Or is someone saying that you can only shoot if you are in CPSA?

This is all aside from that hard fought principle of old - freedom of choice!

 

[Richard59]

I'm C, lowly at that, it's an often bagged class, sometimes blatantly so, I've done both comp and BO ( as the protest entry) tbh shot better when comp, would not at all object to BO being removed, its £4 / £5 out of a day that probably cost me £60 min all in to compete.

Non members can always shoot the course as non reg members and can't see any ground even asking them for comp entry so don't get that argument.

For majors, inter counties and county shoots really do think they should all be comp entry only.

 

[bostonmick]

I shoot birds only as I shoot to enjoy the day only.i believe that just by shooting the event I am supporting the sport and keeping the grounds viable.which I think is more important than giving the same faces my hard earned.i think that shooting would suffer if birds only was dropped.also the cpsa has made a right mess of some peoples classifications a friend I shoot with had only ever shot one registered comp scored a 68/100 yet was classed as a class he phoned them to get this rectified and was assured it was done then the next comp we went to guess what he was still shown as a class.so what is the point of him throwing the extra away might as well buy cartridges with it.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I can think of plenty of people who would strongly disagree with that statement. Ever been to a Gardening or Marrow growing Competition? Those people are vicious competitive I tells ya :spiteful:

That is the point I made :wink:

The minute you enter a competition of any sort....it is not a hobby :wink:

 

[Alan Rowley]

I usually go comp, as I have in the past enjoyed the odd win, so I don't begrudge paying in, the only person you need to beat is yourself so when I beat myself up on the way home, because I couldn't hit my own arse with both hands , I only have myself to blame

if I've had a lean month, sometimes I don't go and enter comp and go birds only. I personally don't mind paying levies either, I have enjoyed receiving the benefits and someone has to pay for it, so again if I pay in and have a crap day, I've only myself to blame.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Many moan when they make a team only to find out that there is no funding help (whether it is a county team, National team or international team) but funding goes in hand with a properly supported competition structure. If competitions were run correctly (as far as levies / funding are concerned an amount would be automatically be added to each shoot for team funding) and even the fun shooters would be behind supporting the game that they play for 'fun'.

 

[ips]

It is arguable that shooters with no intention of going for team places would feel somewhat put out by having to assist financially with regards to team funding and i believe that levies are only implemented for regional county and national shoots not your average Sunday comp. Just in case anyone thinks there paying for funding every Sunday.

We have to appreciate that the vast majority want there scores reg in order to gain a classification but do not take it as seriously as some of us and it is these shooters that keep grounds open. The system allows both types of shooters to compete side by side and i see no reason or justification to change it.

 

[Salopian]

I think we may all be missing a very important point.

There is no set fee for running a 100 target clayshoot .

So if I want to shoot 100 at one place it may cost me £25 or £30  whilst at others it may be £40 -£45. We have a choice.

So I don't think that the extra £5 for competition or B/O is relevant . The shooter makes their own choice.

I do have to say that we could easily add a levy of even £1 or maybe even up to £5 on every shoot to fund teams and / or the sport and none of us would notice. But sadly we will always get the unscrupulous owners not administering (or pocketing?????) some of the levies.

No the REAL issue is we have a very poorly run sport by an association that is well out of touch with the membership.

When did we last  have  a major championship shoot sponsored by a National or International brand?

Apologies to Edgar Bros, Promatic, GMK.

If a Gloucester Farmer can find sponsorship, it makes me wonder what the CPSA Commercial Director and those fabulously intelligent wizz kids who comprise The Board are doing ?

 

[Richard59]

I think we may all be missing a very important point.

There is no set fee for running a 100 target clayshoot .

So if I want to shoot 100 at one place it may cost me £25 or £30  whilst at others it may be £40 -£45. We have a choice.

So I don't think that the extra £5 for competition or B/O is relevant . The shooter makes their own choice.

I do have to say that we could easily add a levy of even £1 or maybe even up to £5 on every shoot to fund teams and / or the sport and none of us would notice. But sadly we will always get the unscrupulous owners not administering (or pocketing?????) some of the levies.

No the REAL issue is we have a very poorly run sport by an association that is well out of touch with the membership.

When did we last  have  a major championship shoot sponsored by a National or International brand?

Apologies to Edgar Bros, Promatic, GMK.

If a Gloucester Farmer can find sponsorship, it makes me wonder what the CPSA Commercial Director and those fabulously intelligent wizz kids who comprise The Board are doing ?

Whilst I agree with most of the points, the levy issue would be contentious, like the idea of a straight £1 from each and every entry maybe a way forward, as long as its ring fenced for funding support for national teams etc.

 

[ips]

Were off topic here really but in reply to Salops post i find it odd also that sponsorship is so poor now. I remember many trade stands and quite a bit of sponsorship at the bywel dtl weekend in the 80s when subaru were quite involved and had cars on show gmk and browning and a few other stands were present. Also the once famous British ot grand prize sponsored by rolex. The latter on this weekend at Beverly with no sponsorship of any kind as far as know. So its a good question as to why things are different now considering that in the 80s the country was on its knees, could it be that no one outside of shooting wish to be seen to be involved with what many consider to be a politically difficult area ?

 

[ips]

Back on topic or rather slightly off again.

Isnt the whole shooting competition system confusing with regards to classes and so many sub category ?

We have so many comps within comps. We have approx classes x4 age x4 sex x2 its no wonder that some shooters cannot be bothered with it all. Someone at some point decided that people would turn up if given enough chances at vary bites of the apple whereas in reality imo most of us are only interested in were we are placed on the leader board not that we were third placed B class over 50 male shooting left handed standing on of leg wearing a blue hat.

 

[Julesy]

Personally I'd get rid of the cash all together. It is the only time people behave like ********* and for what? Less than they paid to shoot the event? I hate this snobbishness towards people who shoot birds only. What about a family that all shoot, if they choose not to go comp then that is an extra entry paid every week. Shoot for titles, trophies, prizes. Comp entry is just gambling, why should it be compulsory? Birds only IS the competition (in terms of titles/trophies/leaving a legacy).


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[wylye]

If a Gloucester Farmer can find sponsorship, it makes me wonder what the CPSA Commercial Director and those fabulously intelligent wizz kids who comprise The Board are doing ?

I think the word you're looking for is incentive. Successfully finding sponsorship highlights the difference between someone on a salary and another looking for a potential income.

 

[ExSCA]

Getting sponsorship is not difficult, you need to be professional, understand ROI, be able to talk to people on a commercial basis, have a basic grasp of marketing and have an interesting product to offer.


All of these things should be well within the remit and experience of a good commercial manager...


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[maddmatt]

For me its simple, allow BO entries for normal registered shoots, and remove the option for all Majors, Majors are competitions, which by definition means er competing, the entry fee is exactly that, how that fee is used is done to the organisers, typically the the difference in cost is not that huge so why segregate yourself, you never you might even win something. I have heard all the arguments of, I don't want the pressure of competing but want to shoot a championship course BUT, it is a competition, maybe we should set the first day as a BO only shooters day....

 

[Finners]

For me its simple, allow BO entries for normal registered shoots, and remove the option for all Majors, Majors are competitions, which by definition means er competing, the entry fee is exactly that, how that fee is used is done to the organisers, typically the the difference in cost is not that huge so why segregate yourself, you never you might even win something. I have heard all the arguments of, I don't want the pressure of competing but want to shoot a championship course BUT, it is a competition, maybe we should set the first day as a BO only shooters day....

Sounds about right to me. In short you don't have to be in a "Competition Shoot" to be shooting competitively, but if you do want to shoot in a Competition Shoot, then you should expect to have to join in, fully. Yep, as a non competition shooter, I can agree with that :good:  

 

[Santa2512]

That is the point I made :wink:

The minute you enter a competition of any sort....it is not a hobby :wink:

Sorry Tink, i disagree

As an ex competitive  Archer for many years,  i shot  anywhere from 1 - 5 times a week,

I was fortunate to live in a city with an archery club that had provision to shoot 24/7,  (which helped no end .)

The fundamental difference  between Archery & Clays, is bullets and arrows , (before some smart arse chips in .) 

Its the way participants  come in to and  progress at the discipline, either at club, Inter club, county or international level

90% of Archers were club members,  what is the figure for CP?

There is no bird or target only option in Archery 

All scores you shot at any club day, club comp, interclub, or county shoot were recorded and submitted to the then  GNAS

 (Grand National Archery Society).  Your club worked out your classification, and handicap, and submitted your scores.

You would when you joined GNAS , or affiliated to them be issued a number

this number was used  to identify you & your score  for any competition , league or match. No number:-  no score recording / handicap /classification

You could enter a comp / match  but your score would not be counted, 

The only time you didn't record your scores was practice days,  (although most did,  otherwise how well do you know you are doing)

If you shot a comp and were doing badly, .... Tough,  your score got reported,  DNF,  was scored on the shots you made,  to the point of DNF, 

If you asked to have your scores not submitted it could be done, (but the only loser was yourself)  it was recorded as a 0  DNF

Sandbagging was possible, but the handicapping system could spot that   and after a couple of shoots your classification would be adjusted,

We fiercely shot club  inter club & county matches,  and also hosted open club champs, which were always over subscribed, 

There was no ££ for prizes  is was a medal or a cup,  spot prizes existed throughout most comps.  Closest to the cross, Lady P prize,  6 gold end , Handicap prize etc.   It wasn't about the  prizes, it was the winning

Whilst i don't disagree with the concept of high gun, and pool shoots,  the reality is only the few benefit. 

Some will say " That's how it should be", with the best migrating to the top,  and reaping the rewards.  

Where is the encouragement for the lower ranks to progress?    ££ may be a motivator,  but its not the right way,

Where is the system to talent spot the rising stars, and to nurture and guide them  

When we had members of team GB come and shoot with us, there were  no  snide remarks, or  animosity, they came and offered advice and encouragement to all, and it was greatly received.

Of course i want to win, its human nature, but I'm not daft .,   my chances of winning an open are equal to none,  but it still doesn't stop me from having a go, My rival is me, my motivator is my desire to do better.

If people want to shoot BO  that's their prerogative,  they shouldn't be castigated for their choice.  Its the system gives them that choice.

As a question to all   "Are you shooting to win" or are you shooting for the £  

Their is a difference

Mart

 

[Bryn12]

Having got my head round this stuff I think Julesy has hit the nail on the head BO is the competition and the money is a side bet.

Yes a decent High gun prize is probably necessary to attract the top shooters BUT if you don't have prizes down the order and classes why should those with no hope in hell of winning put money in the pockets of the pros & semi pros? Fair enough if the AAA & AA guns want to have a small bet among themselves but my feeling is that High Gun &etc should come from the organisers or sponsors.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Getting sponsorship is not difficult, you need to be professional, understand ROI, be able to talk to people on a commercial basis, have a basic grasp of marketing and have an interesting product to offer. All of these things should be well within the remit and experience of a good commercial manager... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Matt gets post of the day award from me. xx

Santa...you are free to have your own view and I do not mind if it is different to mine xx