I am a little sceptical as to those velocities to be honest 1550fps is ~ 472mps looking to two top quality Italian cartridges Fiocchi and Clever their fastest lead shot loads are ~ 410mps at 2.5m from the muzzle and ~380mps at 10m from muzzle. However my scepticism is not just about the cartridges you have quoted velocities for. If you look at Just Cartridges site and look at RIO target load 28g you will see MV as 1445fps or 440mps then go to RIO's own website and see that target loads have a velocity quoted at 1210fps or ~370mps ? More smoke and mirrors methinks!
Black Gold:- Dark Storm! Any good?
- Thread starter SmeGHeaD
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It's a long while since I shot any of the Express Supreme Comps but I do recall them as nice and controlled and not at all thumpy, if you're into monitoring your averages it might be worth a 3 month trial to see whether shooting 8's or at least 7.5's doesn't make a 2-3% improvement.
"I also tend to miss infront if anything, so I don't know why I was so fixed on fast must be best???"
I think you have just highlighted what some people tend to avoid facing up to... it does not matter how fast a load is if you don't hit the target and speed of load does not help you to hit the target! The speed of the shot if it hits the target will help to effect a break but it will not be any help putting the load on the target.
I think you have just highlighted what some people tend to avoid facing up to... it does not matter how fast a load is if you don't hit the target and speed of load does not help you to hit the target! The speed of the shot if it hits the target will help to effect a break but it will not be any help putting the load on the target.
I've always shot 6.5's...It's a long while since I shot any of the Express Supreme Comps but I do recall them as nice and controlled and not at all thumpy, if you're into monitoring your averages it might be worth a 3 month trial to see whether shooting 8's or at least 7.5's doesn't make a 2-3% improvement.
Fed up of hearing my shot hit a target and not break it...........
I shoot 1/2 & 3/4 or Full & Full so pattern density isn't a problem and I find a 6.5 gets out to long targets that bit better than 8's.
Also the devastating kills gives you a real confidence boost ?
I just go by the quoted speeds on the websites as I'm not overly bothered by how fast the shot is actually travelling. I prefer to look at the quality of shot and the patterns they produce.
The Sovereign Parcours Extreme Rage 28gr are claimed to be 1600 fps and are again pretty heavy on the shoulder.
I could certainly notice the difference but I find smoothness and good quality patterns are more important than speed.
chippy
Well-known member
How far away are the clays that you hear the shot hitting?
40 plus yards.
Even the ones at the White Gold Challenge Final which were just standard clay. We were sat watching and it happened loads.......
I heard it a lot at West London thankfully not mine as I was using 6.5's.
It's more common than you think
Even the ones at the White Gold Challenge Final which were just standard clay. We were sat watching and it happened loads.......
I heard it a lot at West London thankfully not mine as I was using 6.5's.
It's more common than you think
This phenomenon used to be an issue way back as I recall especially on cold days and Teal type presentations but in all honesty I can't think of the last time it happened.
I think the trouble was the composition of the clays themselves more than anything which seems to have been addressed.
I think the trouble was the composition of the clays themselves more than anything which seems to have been addressed.
Good point Hamid, but I hear only last week people were having issues breaking Environmental friendly clays, apparently their composition is a little harder and need a bigger hammer to break???
But no-one has told me what the difference is between White Gold & Black Gold in reality except for price and packaging.
Surely a competition 7.5 & 8 need to just do the designed job ?
Or is like the Ford L and Ford Ghia?? Appealing to the well off.
But no-one has told me what the difference is between White Gold & Black Gold in reality except for price and packaging.
Surely a competition 7.5 & 8 need to just do the designed job ?
Or is like the Ford L and Ford Ghia?? Appealing to the well off.
Another good point which I daren't raise applies to those who use 6.5's only on the longer and harder stuff. I mean I can understand Dean shooting them all the way through because that's how he rolls, I know others who have confidence in 7.5 because the fewer pellets than 8's give them the confidence that they carry more energy, others like me get confidence from the extra pellets etc, etc, but when it comes to 6.5's surely if you shoot them at the very long stuff which lets face is where they'll be stretched most in pattern coverage, :mellow: then what is the rationale in not using them much closer, me just no understand this one. :lol:
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Rosso
Well-known member
In theory the only thing that comes to my mind is that 6.5 (might) pattern tighter at close range than 8 or 9, In praxis you got it spot on.
Well yes there is that but even if we were to assume that they pattern "tighter enough" to be an actual issue then just drop down a choke to say half all the way through a round.
It's not the tightness quality that seems to matter for long birds but the greater kinetic energy which I'm prepared to accept but it does beg the question but then why not shoot them everywhere. I genuinely believe the trade off is a poor one.
RobertBeard
Moderator
I can quite often see clays changing direction when they get hit and don't break but I don't hear the shot hit them with my ear protection plugs in. Its like watching long range billiards!
Blackstar Ninja
Well-known member
Allegedly white Gold velocity 1450fps, Black gold velocity 1500 fps with the Gordon recoil reduction system and Darkstorm velocity1550 fps.
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You still see it a lot up here Hammy, Sunday at Auchterhouse it was Baltic and I watched a heap of guys shooting a longish, dome on teal...you could hear shot hitting unbroken ones and a lot of breaks were just the clay in two or three bits. The guy in front of me shot the first two with 8's and broke them in half, the he shot the other 3 with 6.5's and practically vaporised them!!! I shot it with 7's and it broke well.
The last time I can clearly remember a target being affected like this was around the early 90's at some £50 straw baler on a similar Teal to what you describe. It was the talk of the stand all day long as we could all hear the shot hitting the clays but pretty sure we'd have mostly been using 32g 7.5's with a fair few possibly using Winchester 100's which would have been 7's in reality but any breaks were fairly unspectacular.
I have experienced it since but nothing stands out in mind, have to say I'm happy we appear to be using different clays.
Blackstar Ninja,
Thanks for that information, I would think those figureswould be best mean average at 1metre from the muzzle , or in factory terms the square root of F'All.
Sales talk no doubt but if it makes the user happy , good luck .
Thanks for that information, I would think those figureswould be best mean average at 1metre from the muzzle , or in factory terms the square root of F'All.
Sales talk no doubt but if it makes the user happy , good luck .
As I said, I've been shooting mainly 1/2 & 3/4 from a 32" MK38. I've shot some pretty long edge on targets with 1/2 choke and 28g 6.5's and not had a problem with pattern density. So if it's not a problem at 70 or 80 yards then it won't be at 20 yards.
I certainly would never shoot 8's again unless I started shooting skeet.
I certainly would never shoot 8's again unless I started shooting skeet.
Adam
Well-known member
Too loud and too punchy, if your stuck on Gamebore stick to the normal Black/white Gold or try the blue diamond, forget about the whole speed thing it makes precious little difference and isn't worth worrying about. 7.5's through half choke's and then concentrate on putting the lead in the right place.
Geordieboy
Well-known member
All fair comments to be honest. I shot a 60yd midi crosser with a small face at Orston the other week and 3/4 choke with 7 shot Trap shells, and broke it most convincingly 3 out of 4 times. I put it down to the individual shooter and their chokes. Certainly with my combination, I have full confidence on longer birds with 7 shot and tighter chokes. Is 6.5 shot necessary?.........in the real world probably not........but......I have shot some seriously long birds with 6.5 shot and as an engineer, bigger balls mean bigger hammer!!! It becomes necessary if it gives the individual shooter confidence on a shot that is deemed long and difficult. Going into a stand with 8's and 1/4 choke will not give many experienced clay shots a lot of confidence if a Midi is belting along edge on in the wind at 60yds!!!
