Black Gold:- Dark Storm! Any good?

[Hamster]

All fair comments to be honest.  I shot a 60yd midi crosser with a small face at Orston the other week and 3/4 choke with 7 shot Trap shells, and broke it most convincingly 3 out of 4 times.  I put it down to the individual shooter and their chokes.  Certainly with my combination, I have full confidence on longer birds with 7 shot and tighter chokes.  Is 6.5 shot necessary?.........in the real world probably not........but......I have shot some seriously long birds with 6.5 shot and as an engineer, bigger balls mean bigger hammer!!!  It becomes necessary if it gives the individual shooter confidence on a shot that is deemed long and difficult.  Going into a stand with 8's and 1/4 choke will not give many experienced clay shots a lot of confidence if a Midi is belting along edge on in the wind at 60yds!!!

I don't pretend to know the answer but this is ultimately a question of statistical probability rather than one of pure engineering absolutes. We don't even have to conduct actual tests as such because we know that many world class competitors routinely use 8's through tight chokes for almost all of their shooting so we know observationally at least that the evidence exists that very small shot such as 8's and 7.5's will break some very extreme targets. It is possible that much larger shot such as 6.5's will make up for their sparsity by increased kinetic energy and so even things up in the end. It is also possible that they won't because at extended range we at least empirically know that even very small shot and (their greater numbers) will not have sufficient density to affect multiple hits every time so the conclusion could plausibly be drawn that even single strikes from small shot can bring about a break. How else could you explain a string of breaks from a 7.5 on an extreme bird as witnessed almost daily. Bear in mind that (at long range) multiple hits will NOT arrive on the clay at the exact same time so it's not as if multiple implies instantaneous dumping of the combined energy. 

What I would be interested in though is actual tests to find out whether one or the other is superior. In fairness most serious shooters won't be using 1/4 choke but it's perfectly possible to imagine that even if they did, the pattern percentages would trump a tight 6.5, bearing in mind one has 410 pellets against a mere 250. 

My own personal experiences when using even 7's for particularly distant dying/dropper type targets has been very inconclusive, namely that I felt 7.5's did the better job. It's an interesting subject but without stringent and laborious field tests it remains one which depends on shooter confidence more than infallible logic.  

 

[Geordieboy]

I know a chap who shoots for england with 7.5's and 2 x 3/8ths chokes.  I know another chap who shoots for england who shoots 3/4 Full and 7's......it could go on.

I guess the only way to measure it from an engineering perspective is to pattern a gun at 60yds with various chokes and pellet sizes and measure the residual velocity at that distance (Energy can be calculated from this with pellet mass).  I am sure that most combinations will kill all birds out there, but I have no doubt that a tighter pattern will give an 'Increased' chance of a break at distance.  It depends on how far you want to go and what it is you want to prove.  

It is worth getting an 8 shot pellet out and a 6.5 shot pellet out and seeing the difference in size............Not a lot as Paul Daniels would say!

I am very clear on my combination.  8's out to 40yds, 7's any further out and I use 2 x 3/4 chokes for everything.  It works for me.  Of course one mans meat is another mans poison!!!!

Having said that......I may be going off topic a little here Ed......this is about Dark Storm Cartridges.....and I haven't shot any yet!!!  What a nugget I am!

 

[DKGibbs]

I feel this post has been somewhat hijacked from its original topic....

I was at an event when a top shooter was shooting a Dome on straight teal As a show.

He started with 28g 8's and shot it from 20 yards to 40 yards no problem apart from the kills went from "smoke" to "splits".

He then changed to 28g 6.5's and they turned to "smoke" once again and continued breaking to close to 100 yards! He then missed a few and changed to game cartridges 35g 5's and instantly started killing the targets again... he continued to shoot it to over 135 yards...........

In high velocity cartridges small or soft pellets and become miss shaped "crushed by the explosion" which means the fly all different directions. This causes poor patterns at long range.

Light pellets also lose velocity quicker at range which means more lead seen, pellets start to drop and the can be wind affected. All this is only really relevant at range.

6.5's in high quality lead will not be as susceptible to being crushed, they carry velocity further which means the pellets travel more consistently and this means they carry more hitting power.

I guess it's like throwing a paper ball or a stone, I can guess what will go further...

I'm not saying 8's won't break long targets as if put in the right place the can. I will stay that with out a doubt some that appear to have been missed will have been hit but not broken! And this will be a lot more less likely with larger shot.

I choose to shoot the same cartridge for everything as it's the cartridge I like to use and it's what I've got confidence in.

I'd have no problem shooting 8's at most of the targets I see at registered shoots but there are some which I personally would have no confidence in shooting 8's at. And that in its self is bad for my shooting.

For you average sub 50 yard target that isn't really edge on then yes 7.5s imo would be a good choice I don't argue that fact, but there is nothing wrong with 6.5's either....