Both eyes open?

[dave]

I have been quietly practising with various targets since receiving my SGC in October last year.  I treated myself to a new Browning 725 Sporter 30” and I find it quite comfortable to shoot. I have always shot with one eye closed, however one day I was practising high incomers when for no apparent reason I started using both eyes. It is definitely better and I can see now why we are told to do it but I have a problem. When I have both eyes open, I can see two barrels. Has anyone got any advice on how to overcome this as I want to carry on with two eyes open.

Dave.

 

[Jonny English]

You need to try to focus on the target or even better the open air infront of the target and the barrels will hopefully disappear.

 

[SoR]

As you become more accustomed to shooting this way your brain will decide which barrel is the correct one, I use a easy hit bead to differentiate between the two in my head, but if you look at the target all the time and not at your barrel so long as mount and gun fit is correct you will be hitting clays. The better shots on hear will give tou more info

 

[Will Hewland]

Stare the hell out of the clay. Learn to not pay clear attention to the barrels. Unless you have an eye dominance issue, this should be the solution..

 

[Salopian]

Get a very good coach to have a look at your eyesight and gun fit, now before you get your head filled with duff information.

Failing that, because it is advisable to wear safety glasses whilst shooting ( for numerous reasons) you could try placing a piece of scotch tape (the opaque type) onto the off eye's lens ( left hand lens if a RH shooter) position the tape, which should be about the size of a five pence on the lens to dim the view of the barrel when you have the gun mounted.

What this does is it disturbs the image that the off eye is picking up and stops, or more correctly interferes with the transmission to the brain, allowing the correct eye to process the image. Very soon it becomes possible to just shoot without thinking about eye dominance.

In fact I think that is one of the biggest faults for new shooters, they try too hard and think and deliberate too much. a good maxim is, "see it, move to it, shoot it." 

 

[Steveco36]

I use a easy hit bead

How do find these beads, although I am shooting from the left shoulder and definitely left eye dominant I struggle with the odd pairs against backgrounds like hedges and some crossers, i have the standard white bead which is rubbish imo, so been thinking to get one of these easy fit beads but they seem to be only for eye dominance problems?

 

[EdLyons]

Hi Dave and Steve,

Seeing two barrels and one clay is totally normal and indicates the visual system is working properly. This phenomenon is called Physiological Diplopia and is present (to a lesser or greater extent) all the time. For instance, point your finger at a tree in the distance or a switch on the wall. If you are looking solely at the distant object you should see two fingers. If you then shift focus to your fingertip, two trees/switches etc.

This helps us with our depth perception and in normal life we ignore it. However,as soon as we pick up a boomstick and try to make the clay disappear we can get our knickers in a twist.

Salop's points are great - when we start thinking about it, it can become an issue. I would recommend putting the thirty quid towards a lesson rather than an add-on that noone knows if you even need yet.

Later, if you do want to try one pm me and i'll put one in the post. Like it, keep it. If you don't, send it back. 

Happy shooting!

 

[Steveco36]

Many thanks Ed, I am going to remove the bead completely first and go with that, it's probably a case of more practice for me but birds against backgrounds and two pairs, same direction, are my downfall at the moment, possibly the white bead throwing me out as I seem to be out above them every time, will let you know how I get on ..... Sorry for high jacking your thread here Dave!

 

[Westward]

I have been quietly practising with various targets since receiving my SGC in October last year.  I treated myself to a new Browning 725 Sporter 30” and I find it quite comfortable to shoot. I have always shot with one eye closed, however one day I was practising high incomers when for no apparent reason I started using both eyes. It is definitely better and I can see now why we are told to do it but I have a problem. When I have both eyes open, I can see two barrels. Has anyone got any advice on how to overcome this as I want to carry on with two eyes open.

Dave.

Assuming your dominance is normal - and it sounds as though it is - you don't really need to do anything other than carry on. With shotguns 2 eyes are always better than 1, and with targets such as high incomers (driven), using both eyes is a real advantage.

What will happen as you progress and practice concentrating your vision on the sight picture of the clay/lead, is that your brain will become accustomed to the barrels being in the field of view and they will become less & less noticeable. The ability to 'not see' a familiar object because it's not relevant to the current task is a well documented vision phenomenon.

I strongly recommend you avoid any gizmo bead devices, stick-ons or add-ons and if you want to book a coach, select one on the basis of positive testimonials.

 

[Salopian]

To be fair, I think that we all do need to sort out our eye issues if we want to get the best out of our sport.

It amazes me how many people don't bother with eye tests until they notice something is wrong.

Get your vision updated.

One of the reasons our British Cycling Team are performing so well is because they are being cared for by professionals using Sports Science.

We shooters need to follow that trend.

If you have any influence from the 'off' eye you do need to correct it or manage it.

I can see the benefits of all the gadgets, the clever bit is choosing one that will assist you and not influence the introduction of bad practices.

One of the simplest  and most efficient is 'shotspot'   www.shotspot.co.uk used correctly  it greatly assists anyone with dominance issues.

But note I said correctly. I saw a gentleman last week with a price label on his left lens that was possibly closer to his ear than his eye, but psychologically he was possibly happy.

 

[Oldfarmer]

I spend a great deal of my life getting people to shoot better. There are a few fundamentals that you need to address when shooting with both eyes open which have not really been fully covered.

Everyone’s eyes are different – so a fix for one may not work for someone else. If you have an instructor locally with a good reputation for solving eye dominance and gun fit issues then it will be money well spent.

The most fundamental issue you have to address is to get the gun to point at where you are looking. Sounds simple but in reality it is probably the biggest reason for consistently missing targets - if it is not right. A quick session with a laser or a pattern plate will show you if you are off line.

If your gun is on line then whatever you are doing is good – if it is off then you need to address it as a priority.

All the above mentioned solutions plus several others such as slightly dimming the off eye,  cast, crossover stocks and dummy ribs can work but you need someone who can asses the problem, come up with the most likely solutions and a selection of aids for you to try before you buy.

If you want to fix it yourself then use a laser to see how far off you are first and then you will know how successful each of the solutions turns out to be. When you have it right it will increase your confidence enormously to know it is right.

John

 

[Steveco36]

Some great replies and ideas guys, thanks, unlike Dave, I am definitely left eye and left shoulder mounted but my dominant eye got damaged a few years back so although close birds are ok it's distance, straight down the rib it's when there's background distractions and distance involved my problems start, seems the right eye takes over hence I was thinking about the red style bead just to level things up a bit, trial and error I guess!

 

[Salopian]

Steveco,

 When was the last time you visited an optician and had a thorough eye examination?

A good point made by John ( Oldfarmer) but not everyone has instant access to a pattern plate or Arrow Laser, so you could check out your point of aim using a mini mag light in the barrels.

 Once you have sorted your visual issues, it will lift your confidence tremendously to go out and powder a few simple straight away targets, progressively moving further and further  back from the trap.

 

[Steveco36]

Steveco,
 When was the last time you visited an optician and had a thorough eye examination?
A good point made by John ( Oldfarmer) but not everyone has instant access to a pattern plate or Arrow Laser, so you could check out your point of aim using a mini mag light in the barrels.
 Once you have sorted your visual issues, it will lift your confidence tremendously to go out and powder a few simple straight away targets, progressively moving further and further  back from the trap.

Funny you should mention that as this has been playing on my mind so booked an eye test this week to see if my suspicions are correct, good idea with the mini mag though will try that!

Steve

 

[dave]

Well, thanks to everyone for your advice and comments. I have now got plenty to think about. I have only been shooting for a few months and have been steadily improving. This is a new issue which only came up on Sunday during a 100 bird registered at Catton Hall, (I managed 44) I agree that I need to get some more lessons now that I have got the novelty out of my system. I am going with ignoring the barrel and focusing on the clay also I will find a ground with a patten plate.  

Thanks again, I will post how I get on with ignoring the barrels.

Steveco, no worries,  I am pleased that you got something out of the thread. Thats what the forum is for after all.

Dave.

 

[Steveco36]

 
Steveco, no worries,  I am pleased that you got something out of the thread. Thats what the forum is for after all.
 
Dave.

No problems mate, I too have only recently got back into this game so learning all the time, best of luck with your forth coming shoot!

Steve

 

[Westward]

I am going with ignoring the barrel and focusing on the clay also I will find a ground with a patten plate.  

Thanks again, I will post how I get on with ignoring the barrels.

Dave.

Dave, I think that's exactly the right decision because at the moment there's no reason to suspect that you have anything other than normal eyesight & normal dominance.

No point in trying to fix something until you know it's faulty.

A case in point would be the time I changed from Miroku to Beretta. The only problem I had getting used to the Beretta was on dead straight shots like slow vertical teal or flat going away targets. My eyes kept being drawn away from the target and back to the gun. I realised that even though I wasn't conciously seeing the details on the gun, my brain knew it was a different gun because the rib pattern wasn't the same, there was no mid bead and it had a straight forend rather than a schnabel. It took about 500 clays before my poor old brain was fully accustomed to the new gun.

Don't try to deliberately ignore the barrels, just try to concentrate solely on the sight picture.

 

[Salopian]

Dave,

 There is a pattern plate to use at Cloudside Congleton or WMSG Hodnet Shropshire.

Pattern plates do have there uses but don't think that they are essential. If you have land to use for shooting you can manage well with old cardboard boxes or leftover rolls of wallpaper to check patterns and PoA.

But once you know that those fundamentals are correct you will get far more of a confidence build by shooting going away targets, and getting increasingly good at breaking them.

 

[dave]

Thanks again Wesward and Salopian, I know I can see ok with one eye from my recent results. I went to NWSS about 6 weeks ago and practiced the single incommer from the low tower. I hit 51 of 56 that day. Repetition seems to be the key, I still find the crossers more difficult and that is where I think the extra eye will count. I am expecting the pattern plate to help with confidence that the gun shoots where I point, allowing me to forget about it and focus on the target. All common sence really.