Browning DS Chokes....Hmmmmmm

[Geordieboy]

So then, I've been shooting a Browning 725 Pro-Trap.......rather well of late.  But the engineer came out and I measured the choke restrictions of what came with the gun.  Measured vs barrel diameter we find the following

Skeet = 0.738" = TrueCylinder

1/4 Improved Cyl = 0.004" or Light Skeet

Half = 0.008" =  Roughly a light Quarter......

3/4 = 0.014" = A Light 3/8th.........

Light Full = 0.028" = almost 3/4 choke

Full is 0.038" which is almost full choke.

I'm a bit bemused at such restrictions.  Only the top chokes appear to be close, and the ones underneath are way out.  Especially the 3/4 choke.  I put that in for long birds.  I'm about ready to throw the bloody lot away at the moment.

Anybody else seen this?  I'm tempted to buy another Light Full as the above is worrying to say the least.  I do change my cartridges to change my pattern, but the 3/4 choke is way out.  

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL

 

[Bebo]

If you are shooting it rather well and the 3/4 is breaking the long birds that you put it in for why are you worried?  Maybe it just means that 3/8 is enough for even the long birds at most shoots...

 

[Doctor Lecter]

So then, I've been shooting a Browning 725 Pro-Trap.......rather well of late.  But the engineer came out and I measured the choke restrictions of what came with the gun.  Measured vs barrel diameter we find the following

Skeet = 0.738" = TrueCylinder

1/4 Improved Cyl = 0.004" or Light Skeet

Half = 0.008" =  Roughly a light Quarter......

3/4 = 0.014" = A Light 3/8th.........

Light Full = 0.028" = almost 3/4 choke

Full is 0.038" which is almost full choke.

I'm a bit bemused at such restrictions.  Only the top chokes appear to be close, and the ones underneath are way out.  Especially the 3/4 choke.  I put that in for long birds.  I'm about ready to throw the bloody lot away at the moment.

Anybody else seen this?  I'm tempted to buy another Light Full as the above is worrying to say the least.  I do change my cartridges to change my pattern, but the 3/4 choke is way out.  

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL

yes my mate remarked on this a while ago ?   browning say the ds chokes  are calibrated to the guns barrels  ,  and throw superb patterns  ?        you did say you were shooting it rather well ,  so stick with em .   !!!     unless  it plays with your head .  

 

[Geordieboy]

If you are shooting it rather well and the 3/4 is breaking the long birds that you put it in for why are you worried?  Maybe it just means that 3/8 is enough for even the long birds at most shoots...

You have a point.  But now I know that its less than half choke.........my heads not in it.  I'm going to pattern it at Sporting Targets in a weeks time with the Half, 3/4, LFull and Full chokes with the same shell at 35m.

If I get a dense pattern with them, I'll be fine.  If its wide open, then I'll be buying a Light Full for most of my sporting work.  Certainly the shells (Eley Superbs) are responsible for the quality of the breaks I have experienced lately.

 

[schmokinn]

Is this measured with a dial/digital bore gauge or the presumed difference between where you measured in the choke and the nominal bore of the gun?

 

[Bebo]

You have a point.  But now I know that its less than half choke.........my heads not in it.  I'm going to pattern it at Sporting Targets in a weeks time with the Half, 3/4, LFull and Full chokes with the same shell at 35m.

If I get a dense pattern with them, I'll be fine.  If its wide open, then I'll be buying a Light Full for most of my sporting work.  Certainly the shells (Eley Superbs) are responsible for the quality of the breaks I have experienced lately.

If it's going to play with your head then best to do something to reassure yourself about it. 

I purposely went for a fixed choke 3/8, 3/8 gun so that I never even have to think about them at all.  It had no problem breaking the whopping 60m crosser at the Premier League shoot at EJC consistently, so I know any misses at distance are me rather than the gun.  Anything really close I just bung a piston wad 9 in.

 

[Geordieboy]

Is this measured with a dial/digital bore gauge or the presumed difference between where you measured in the choke and the nominal bore of the gun?

Measured using a digital micro meter at the choke end. Then subtracting the difference from barrel diameter. 

If it's going to play with your head then best to do something to reassure yourself about it. 

I purposely went for a fixed choke 3/8, 3/8 gun so that I never even have to think about them at all.  It had no problem breaking the whopping 60m crosser at the Premier League shoot at EJC consistently, so I know any misses at distance are me rather than the gun.  Anything really close I just bung a piston wad 9 in.

A friend of mine shoots a DT11. The breaks he gets waaaaay out with half choke and 8s are staggering.  It's all about how the gun patterns. I'll happily shoot the 3/4 (3/8th) choke at almost everything, if it patterns well on the board. The half choke suggested that the Eley Superbs 7.5s were more than up to the task of big targets. But an edge on midi at 60+yds leaves me wanting more.

 

[schmokinn]

Measured using a digital micro meter at the choke end. Then subtracting the difference from barrel diameter. 

I would suggest trying with a proper bore gauge,not doubting your engineering expertise but sometimes constrictions are not always where you expect and i have been surprised in the past.

 

[Geordieboy]

Is this measured with a dial/digital bore gauge or the presumed difference between where you measured in the choke and the nominal bore of the gun?

Measured choke bore diameter with a Digital micrometer.  Not exact I know however thats all I had to hand.  I'll see if I can grab a bore guage from work.  Difference is between diameter of bore (Given at 18.7mm /0.736") vs the measured diameter of the choke.

 

[MartynB]

You are getting far to technical . If the gun throws the requisite pattern in terms of “ Percentage In the circle at the distance “ .  Then  constrictions  are irrelevant . Same story if it is killing what you want to kill . 

I have  a set of Teague “thin walls”  in my Miroku . They are matched to the actual bore of the gun , 7?chokes in increments  of 005” from 0.010 all the way up to .040 . 

I haven’t patterned them I just worked backwards and then went up one when the long  kills got chippy . For what it’s worth that means I could use .015”for most of my shooting . 

 

[Will Hewland]

I had a Beretta with some chokes clearly marked wrongly. I discovered it by how loose the cleaning jag felt. Then measured it properly. Trust nothing..

 

[Gavin]

All browning ds chokes are the same, no were near as tight as they should be. Theres lots of threads on shotgunworld about it.   Seen it with a 725, A group of us shooting a quartering bird in to a dusty bank  40-50 yards away   the pattern for the browning  was huge compared to the rest  I mean  6ft pattern at that distance.  Was ment to be a half choke.  He swapped them for Briley chokes  proper constrictions.  

 

[Westward]

I had a Beretta with some chokes clearly marked wrongly. I discovered it by how loose the cleaning jag felt. Then measured it properly. Trust nothing..

Same here, but it's also true that people have been remarking about the weirdness of DS choke definitions ever since the 725 came out and the OPs measurements are so far from what you'd expect that it can't be accidental.

Miroku/Browning must have some plan behind it as I can't see them patterning every gun with it's own set of chokes. I would though assume the aftermarket choke makers use conventional constrictions rather than copying the original schema of the supplied chokes.

If it were me I'd have to dump the Browning chokes and use Teagues. Life's too short to waste any of it trying fathom the unfathomable.

 

[westley]

THAT is why I stay away from measuring anything, other than the fit and would not go near a pattern plate to save my life. I have been using I/C in both,  on my 725 and coupled with 24 gram Cheddites, the breaks at out to 35 yards have all been very convincing. IF,  I went anywhere and encountered a rangey target, I carry a box of World Cups to cover just such an event. Now it it is in your head, each time you miss (and I hope it is not too often), you will be blaming the chokes.  I have some relations going out to the States and I hope they will be bringing me 2 Briley DS extended chokes in I/C. Briley's  fitted in my Miroku, Inv plus, served me very well over the last 15 years or so. Try to avoid getting too hung up on the ballistics, if you can.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

once the seed of doubt has been sown          we are doomed !!   :sarcastichand:

 

[AW13]

THAT is why I stay away from measuring anything, other than the fit and would not go near a pattern plate to save my life. I have been using I/C in both,  on my 725 and coupled with 24 gram Cheddites, the breaks at out to 35 yards have all been very convincing. IF,  I went anywhere and encountered a rangey target, I carry a box of World Cups to cover just such an event. Now it it is in your head, each time you miss (and I hope it is not too often), you will be blaming the chokes.  I have some relations going out to the States and I hope they will be bringing me 2 Briley DS extended chokes in I/C. Briley's  fitted in my Miroku, Inv plus, served me very well over the last 15 years or so. Try to avoid getting too hung up on the ballistics, if you can.

If it is of interest I am thinking of selling my DS Teague extended chokes.  I have 2 x 1/4 and 1 x Skeet. They were in my 725 which I have now sold and have not had much use.

 

[FreeShot]

Geordieboy see this:

Invector DS Choke Pattern Pictures

...to add some sice my last post in the above thread - 3/4 (0.15)  is my "go-to" choke - either combined as a 2nd barrel choke on compak layouts, or 1 st barrel on Fitasc combined with LF (.026) and for Trap with eithe LF or F (0.038) for certain cartridges (Clever RVS Fly High 28g) of lately...

 

[Geordieboy]

Geordieboy see this:

Invector DS Choke Pattern Pictures

...to add some sice my last post in the above thread - 3/4 (0.15)  is my "go-to" choke - either combined as a 2nd barrel choke on compak layouts, or 1 st barrel on Fitasc combined with LF (.026) and for Trap with eithe LF or F (0.038) for certain cartridges (Clever RVS Fly High 28g) of lately...

I remember that thread now.  Great patterns those by the way.  The Sovereign is a naturally tight patterning shell.  A notably top shot I know who patterned them said that you shouldn't go past half with a Sovereign (in his krieghoff).  I have shot them in my perazzi and the breaks have been nothing short of spectacular.  In fact as much to say the Sovereign is right up there with my favourite shells.  I'd just shoot them exclusively......if they weren't so expensive.

I'm hoping that I see the same breaks from the Superbs I have been using.  Certainly the breaks I have had from the 725 have been confidence inspiring.  I just want another choke so I have the same in both barrels, and whether that is half-3/4-Light Full, is yet to be determined.  I guess the pattern plate will highlight that for me next Tuesday!  As MartynB stated previously, its all about what it does at the business end.  I just need to see it with my own eyes so I know what is going to happen way out there.

The halfs have given me more than satisfactory breaks out to 40yds.  But looking at the patterns, the 3/4 looks to be about the best.  I'd be happy with that and pop in a Cylinder for those 10yd wabbits, and a tight shell for long stuff.

Lets see what the pattern plate says.  I will update with pics post plate bashing!

 

[FreeShot]

Lets see what the pattern plate says.  I will update with pics post plate bashing!

looking forward to it.

Oh and if you decide to drop 3/4 I'd be more than happy to take it