Budget Cartridges

[Santa2512]

For me, I found Hull Pro fibre 24g to be comparible with evo 24g

Smooth, low recoil, - one i would use if evo's wern't available


I tried 100 F blacks and blues over the christmas break, the results were interesting

F Blues 24G Fibre, surprising, as good as Evo 24g would consider these also if evo's wernt available

F Blacks 28G plastic

Good shells, not sure if it was just me or the shell's but i took some shots on the skeet range that to me i'd left to late and were misses, but

incredibly broke at long range.

If they did a 24G id definatly shoot them again, but the 28's i think would start to wear me down over a long day


:santa:

 

[Gavin]

2 weeks ago my eyes were opened to what a budget cartridge can do, we set up the 100ft boom full height and shot crossers at a full 70yards measured with a range finder, from the angle we were shooting you could only see mostly edge and the breaks were hard and consistent once we found them, the clay wasn't that fast but I was still seeing a good 20+ of lead, we were all shooting hull superfast me with 1/2 & 3/4 chokes and couldn't see and difference in breaks, with out the range finder all our estimates of distance was wrong we would have said it was about 90yards but a proved 70yards

 

[Doctor Lecter]

in my humble opinion f blacks 28g  are top draw  ,   I always look for a bargain though kent velocities very good ,  eley Olympics  £164 x 1000 at orston    all these shells are more consistent  than me !    however if cost  was not a issue  , I would shoot top end shells   express ,  gamebore ,   

 

[Oldblaster]

You absolutely can tell a difference between cartridges speed recoil quality of breaks even consistency but I believe it takes many years of experience to be able to. The most important thing imo is consistency. We have chronod many cartridges and the lack of consistency of speed from some is quite substantial.

Hammy

F black are soft especially the 24 and I have chronod them and they are as consistent as you could hope for at any price. Interested in your review when you have shot a K

I totally agree, as for speed perception I think its genetic, some people can detect a difference in speed, and some cannot. As for consistency the difference in forward allowance at 1400 feet per second and 1500 is measured in inches, so is consistency really relevant? I think that components are more important, what i think we are searching for is barrel and cartridge compatibility, the best pattern possible found by trial and error, I bought some cheapies once that took the bottom of the clay out consistently, and left the top spinning time and again, other produce even kills! 

 

[jwpzx9r]

"You absolutely can tell a difference between cartridges speed recoil quality of breaks even consistency but I believe it takes many years of experience to be able to. The most important thing imo is consistency. We have chronod many cartridges and the lack of consistency of speed from some is quite substantial."

That you think your experience an tell the difference I am not going to dispute but the bit in bold intrigues me. What do you consider a substantial difference in velocity on say a cartridge with a nominal mv of say 1400fps ?  The reason I ask is that it is easy to think that a cartridge performing over a range of say 1300fps to 1450fps when measured over shooting a box of 25 is inconsistent but if the bell curve for a thousand actually peaks at the 1400fps the manufacturers claims for this speed are justified, just my opinion though.

The interesting point I would make from a relative beginners point of view is this. A trapshooter of the calibre of say MD, AA or DK  well they might be able to tell you, with some justification, they missed a target or got a bad break because a cartridge use was out of spec... because they know exactly where they are shooting  and break target greater than 98% of the time!  The average club shooter ... don't make me laugh... they might use that excuse though!

 

[EdSolomons]

Again, happy to put up all those confident enough to a blind test of your choosing- the money still stands.

99% of the time it is your brain telling you what you want to hear, as I have proved in the pat with numerous customers. Funnily enough, they can always tell how much better a shell performs when they know its in the pipe, the results of blind testing are quite frankly hilarious.

Two things are getting forgotten here-

1) patterns are themselves so random, it is impossible to get the same result even if you DID shoot in the same place every time. Expensive shells can give a poor break as well as a cheaper one giving smoke.

2) and with the greatest of respect, and not directed at anyone, if you are hitting for example 70% over a season, at a range of grounds and competitions, that means 30% of the time you are putting the shot in the wrong place. You will be completely unable to evaluate a shell as the enormous variation firstly comes from the shooter!

Over the years I have been given/bought/won all sorts of shells, of varying perceived quality, speeds and components.

I still hit the clays with them. I don't adjust my lead for the speed of the shell (biggest myth going), I don't really mind how much antimony is in them, the powder and was is also of no real interest. I hit them because I know the factor affecting a bit or miss is me.

Yes I have a favourite, based on comfort, historical performance and CONFIDENCE. The last bit is the key.

By all means but what you like but the real difference is between your ears.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I totally agree, as for speed perception I think its genetic, some people can detect a difference in speed, and some cannot. As for consistency the difference in forward allowance at 1400 feet per second and 1500 is measured in inches, so is consistency really relevant? I think that components are more important, what i think we are searching for is barrel and cartridge compatibility, the best pattern possible found by trial and error, I bought some cheapies once that took the bottom of the clay out consistently, and left the top spinning time and again, other produce even kills!

Really? You are a far better shooter than you think you are ..

 

[ips]

Old blaster

That's a fair point.

John

I am not saying that you can neccasarily tell if you shoot a cartridge that is hundred fps less than the previous one its just that having chronod them it gets in your head. Having Said That on one occasion we chronod a dozen of a cheap ish load the bloke pulling the trigger who is highly experienced noted more recoil on some which incidentally were the ones at the top of the speed range !!

We may be talking a mere inches of difference in lead or whatever but that's all it takes on a fast angled ot target.

 

[Gavin]

Id have to agree with ed easy to see what you want to see when you know what's in the barrel, the same with recoil blind test and I know I couldn't tell id be very surprised if any one else could

 

[EdSolomons]

A going away presentation is where it would make LEAST difference from a theoretical lead perception stand point...

 

[Nimbusgb]

All of the above is exactly why I use a budget cartridge like the Hull Superfast.

Cost - i put 16000 odd through the gun last year so overall cost was a factor, especially as my darling wife sees my credit card bills!

Reliability - i had one misfire out of all of those, probably a dud primer.

Consistency - I can't tell the difference between any two 'Bangs' that they make.

Confidence - As Ed says, I'm happy with them!

One day I may break a 90 ( party time!!! ) i may start worrying about cartridges then.

BUT ...

Wouldn't it be nice if Hull made them in an 8 or a 9 too!

 

[schmokinn]

funnily enough a mate shot with me at gunsite yesterday.first 50 he shot with the last rc2 7.5s i had then i gave him fifty hull comp x shot the first stand with them missed a couple and immediately said he did not like them.

not so much kick and less noise making him think they were crap....funnily enough after smashing all the fast crossers on the next stand he didn't mention it again.

guess that proves its all in the head :spiteful:

 

[EdSolomons]

Was coaching at grimsthorpe last Monday and consistently saw a measured 65 yard crosser crucified with comp x 28g after he ran out of super fast.

Point perfectly illustrated

 

[EdSolomons]

With witnesses too!

 

[ips]

A going away presentation is where it would make LEAST difference from a theoretical lead perception stand point...

I actually said fast "angled" target. Also worth noting that a fast angled low target is very small as your only seeing the edge of it therefore tis easily missed by an inch.

 

[schmokinn]

shot 1000's of them and there great though i do tend to use more expensive shells for comps :haha:

superfasts especially in fibre seem really kicky to me...all about perception and everyone is different i guess.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Old blaster

That's a fair point.

John

I am not saying that you can neccasarily tell if you shoot a cartridge that is hundred fps less than the previous one its just that having chronod them it gets in your head. Having Said That on one occasion we chronod a dozen of a cheap ish load the bloke pulling the trigger who is highly experienced noted more recoil on some which incidentally were the ones at the top of the speed range !!

We may be talking a mere inches of difference in lead or whatever but that's all it takes on a fast angled ot target.

Ian given you dislike of things that can introduce variance I am very surprised you investigated mv for shotgun cartridges, the less you know the better... or put it the other way them more you know the more you think you need to worry about don't do it!

As to lead for a trap target. You have been shooting way way longer than me and with out doubt are a better shot. I don't miss targets because of an inch and a half of lead either way... neither do you!

 

[EdSolomons]

Missed by an inch!? Maybe it was the wind that blew the shot off line

 

[ips]

Ian given you dislike of things that can introduce variance I am very surprised you investigated mv for shotgun cartridges, the less you know the better... or put it the other way them more you know the more you think you need to worry about don't do it!

As to lead for a trap target. You have been shooting way way longer than me and with out doubt are a better shot. I don't miss targets because of an inch and a half of lead either way... neither do you!

Your absolutely right John too much knowledge is a dangerous thing.

This is merely an inter sting point for discussion I remain convinced fixed 3/4 full is what a trap gun should be but it's interesting to read of others opinion and experience.

 

[Oldblaster]

At the end of the day its all down to confidence in our equipment, our abilities are the last thing we tend to blame when things go wrong!