Cartridge prices

[ips]

Phew, rant over

i agree with everything you say apart from one thing. I started in 86 and i think that shooting is actually cheaper now. I seem to remember a 100 comp being around £18 and cartridge price was about £80 - £100

i seem to remember that i worked on £5 for a 25 dtl practice Incl shells Now that Doesnt seem a lot but were talking nearly 30 yrs ago.

My memory might not have the figures exact but not far off. So consider the relative cost of living and i reckon shooting is cheaper now.

 

[Chard]

I dislike paying £150, £200 for anything, especially something I'm going to throw in the bin. But when I work out the positive things about Shooting clay targets, the friendships, the excitment, the getting out and about all over the country, and, in this Sport, being able to stand behind and compete against some of the Greatest shots in the World and Chard, then in my opinion it is a price worth paying.
I wish it was cheaper as I would do more of it. As I'm sure every other shooter in this Country would.

-_-

 

[abbeygold]

Ahem...

As I've obviously got time on my hands today here's a trip down memory lane.

I have a hand written receipt from Just Carts for my first bulk cartridge purchase....

500 Super Comp - £49.88

500 RC1 - £44.00

500 Rottweil Competition Trap £44.00

Don't know what happened to the Rottweils? They were very good, blue case with high ish brass.

Anyway that was March 2003.

Can't believe I've been shooting this long and I'm still sh*te!

 

[Ray]

I tend to stick to Super Steel 24 gram's and cheap as well at 135 per thousand. 

If I go to a ground where steel is banned, then I tend to stick to Ely First's.

The price is nothing compared to the smaller gauges for NSSA shooting especially the 28 & 410 gauges.

Each time I come back from America I bring back a slab of them, as they are cheaper and better in my opinion

especially the Remington & Winchesters. 

 

[Hamster]

While I find somewhere to lay down my violin could one of the home manufacturers (or someone on their behalf) explain how it comes to be that we can buy imported European shells cheaper than home-brews? Living standards, wages, transport, manufacturing red tape etc, are all broadly similar and yet it seems British makers are missing a trick........................or are they? :???:

They reckon as a rough rule manufacturing costs for consumables are around 1/7th their retail values; doesn't include transport, advertising blah blah.

 

[Graeme Rice]

I used to have a deal with Eley a few years ago...Eley VIP (green) £70 per thou and VIP Fitasc £75 per thou, at the time the normal prices were about £135/£145 per thou. I don't for one minute suppose Eley would sell at a loss to sponsored shooters so does that give you some idea of their margins ?

My thoughts on the British manufacturers are not really important but I have noticed that Gamebore are generally the last to put their prices up and seem to have  been involved in the great british cartridge rip off to a lesser degree than the others.

 

[Darkside]

While I find somewhere to lay down my violin could one of the home manufacturers (or someone on their behalf) explain how it comes to be that we can buy imported European shells cheaper than home-brews? Living standards, wages, transport, manufacturing red tape etc, are all broadly similar and yet it seems British makers are missing a trick........................or are they? :???:

.

Italian manufacturer: so Mr British cartridge manufacturer, how many shells do you load per day?

British manufacturer: we have two loading machines pumping out 45k each every 12 hour shift with 28 staff

Italian manufacturer: we have 6 newer, bigger, better machines pumping out 120k each every 8 hours with 6 staff...and we make everything in house

British manufacturer: eh, sh*te!!!

 

[webber]

Italian manufacturer: so Mr British cartridge manufacturer, how many shells do you load per day?

British manufacturer: we have two loading machines pumping out 45k each every 12 hour shift with 28 staff

Italian manufacturer: we have 6 newer, bigger, better machines pumping out 120k each every 8 hours with 6 staff...and we make everything in house

British manufacturer: eh, sh*te!!!

Fiocchi manufacture around 2 Billion primers each year and around 800 Million shotgun cases, fact.

They manufacture all component parts in house.  The Fiocchi family also own a lead recycling business which supplies most of the lead for the shot.

Family businesses generally have a longer term view when it comes to return on investment.

It pains me to write this, but Fiocchi make British manufacturers look like amateurs.

webber

 

[Darkside]

...and Fiochhi are still chasing Clever Mirage!!!

 

[webber]

...and Fiochhi are still chasing Clever Mirage!!!

Whilst its the season of goodwill etc.  we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

webber

 

[RobertBeard]

While I find somewhere to lay down my violin could one of the home manufacturers (or someone on their behalf) explain how it comes to be that we can buy imported European shells cheaper than home-brews? Living standards, wages, transport, manufacturing red tape etc, are all broadly similar and yet it seems British makers are missing a trick........................or are they? :???:

They reckon as a rough rule manufacturing costs for consumables are around 1/7th their retail values; doesn't include transport, advertising blah blah.

To what extent are we missing out on being a full member of Europe or if not that then not taking full advantage of the opportunities in Europe, the bigger markets etc. Is our education system at fault? Our foreign language skills are pitifull compared to theirs.

I can remember going through France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy as a child in the late 1950's and early 60's and farming in France back then was virtually medieval strip farming. They have developed and mechanised far quicker than us in the post war period and those countries have all leaped ahead of us.

We are probably too insular as an island, We are quite good at very high tech stuff e.g. Formula 1 and Financial & Insurance markets but we seem to have a frightening level of low achievers, benefit cheats, drunks, and much less pride and self assurance in ourselves as a country. This has to be partly the education system and the change in culture in the country to one where benefits are too easy to get and rely on.

I'm afraid that I don't know the answer. I'm now putting my tin hat on!

 

[abbeygold]

Just a quick one on the subject of sponsorship.

Fiocchi are obviously making in roads into the British market. Are we likely to see them sponsor the odd sporting shooter and or the odd event or are they entirely focused on Trap shooting?

I suppose one could say at least the British manufacturers do put a little bit back by helping out the odd lucky (and talented) shooter with "sponsored rates" and such like.

Probably one for Webber as the Fiocchi expert - or Nicola if she's about....

Happy new year everyone.

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

This is an expensive Sport/Hobbie, get over it. It isn't the 1980's anymore, when shooting was cheap. I talk to shooters of that era and they were shooting three, four shoots a week. a couple of registereds on a sunday, and loads of practice in the summer weekday evenings. Brilliant!

Those days are gone I'm affraid. Unless like a lot of the top shots in this Country, you have a few quid or rich parents.

The "Let's Boycot  Manufacturers" Brigade are, in my opinion, as bad as the "Let's ban Guns" Bellends. They can never tell you how much a Cartridge Manufacturer makes on a thousand shells. Yes, they make Profit. Greed isn't another word for Profit. They don't make nearly as much as you think. I know.

Now, for every Cartridge I pull out of my Skeet vest, there is a Clay I'm going to shoot, or in most cases, miss. Now when I look at that Cartridge, a mid price, mid range shell, and I work out the price of that single shell, let's say 15, 20 pence, and I think about what goes into making them shells. The Case, the Brass head, Primer, Powder, Wad, lead, Ink, The inner Box, the outer box, Labelling, the Machine operator and energy to run the machines. Transport, Logistics, Admin staff, Rates, Taxes, Insurance, (Waste disposal, which has to be paid for) Staff wages, Vehicles, Retailers, the list goes on.

Does that amount of cost/work go into a Clay? I doubt it. I never give the cost of them a second thought when they fly off into the distance.

There is a hell of alot of cost that goes into making a Cartridge. That is a fact.

Let's Boycott Manufacturers, If these firms were to disappear, I believe with all the red tape, they would not be replaced. That's great. what the f*** do I do on a Sunday then?. Read the Bible and go for a walk? f*** that. Do you think the firms on foreign soil will send us free Cartridges? Nope.

There are to many People in this Country who would like to stop me from Owning a Gun and Making lots of noise on a Sunday morning with it.. Why don't you worry about them than the price of the Sport?

I dislike paying £150, £200 for anything, especially something I'm going to throw in the bin. But when I work out the positive things about Shooting clay targets, the friendships, the excitment, the getting out and about all over the country, and, in this Sport, being able to stand behind and compete against some of the Greatest shots in the World, then in my opinion it is a price worth paying.

I wish it was cheaper as I would do more of it. As I'm sure every other shooter in this Country would.

Without a doubt one of the most ill informed rants ever, the manufacturers must be rubbing there hands together thinking what excuse they can use now to put up prices as you obviously still want to spend more money on shells, twenty years ago lead reached £1000 a ton now it trades at £800 a ton machines are ten times more efficient and they no longer use solid brass, FACT the cartridge manufacterers are in good order  and not quite ready to go clothcap in hand thankfully so lets keep it real and if your not really sure then best left unsaid. :wink:

 

[Darkside]

Without a doubt one of the most ill informed rants ever, the manufacturers must be rubbing there hands together thinking what excuse they can use now to put up prices as you obviously still want to spend more money on shells, twenty years ago lead reached £1000 a ton now it trades at £800 a ton machines are ten times more efficient.... :wink:

Mostly agree Shaun, but scrap lead is worth £850t, clean lead is trading for much, much more...just saying

 

[PhilS]

Mostly agree Shaun, but scrap lead is worth £850t, clean lead is trading for much, much more...just saying

But surely the reclaimed/scrap lead would be fine for cartridges?

 

[Darkside]

But surely the reclaimed/scrap lead would be fine for cartridges?

The point I was making was if scrap lead is making £850t at the scrap yard, by the time it's processed into shot, the price will be vastly more than £800t...

 

[tom b young]

Six years ago lead was the cheapest component in a cartridge, now the most expensive.

There is no powder, wad or case manufactures in the Uk, all the components are imported, haulage has risen by 75% in 3 years, diesel in Italy is now more expensive than the UK.

The £ is worth 20-30% less than 10 years ago against the Euro, personally I think you are lucky that shells are still as cheap as they are!

I used to pay £85 per 1000 for Eley Olympic Trap in 1977, and at that time vat was almost nowt.

If you do he sums shells are still cheap.

 

[Salopian]

I think one of the most irritating issues with cartridge price is the fluctuation amongst the retailers as already described and mentioned.

For years I have bought my cartridges from Terry Hale at Cross Gun Club Kinver, his prices have always been keen.

But remember we don't forget when prices go up because of Lead price increase and Fuel price increases but do not come down when those two come down.

Also think back to when Hull Superfast were introduced, as a loss leader to use up surplus components, that was a marketing ploy / statement.

All I can say is they must have a hell of a lot of surplus components.

Tom,

 I certainly am not complaining about Clever or RC prices, I think most of us would prefer to buy a good shell at a little more expense rather than be ripped off buying a home spun inferior cartridge.

Interestingly Edgar Bros are importing Remington and selling them at a competitive price. Do they come over on a raft using the Gulf stream???

 

[tom b young]

Nope they come out of the B&P factory in Italy, or Gamebore not sure of which?

 

[tiptop]

B&P Italy apparently,according to info on Edgar Bros website