This is the bit that gets me, they think it's clever beating you by distance or edge on and pace but in reality it's a lazy kind of target setting. I don't mind a really hard stand but even that has to yield a 9 if you're absolutely focused and on it. What you can't do is have 3 stands where misses are guaranteed.
Caterham 100 ESP 20/05/12
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
I remember shooting at Weston Wood a few years ago. It was normal to go onto a stand and have the scorer say 'nobody has hit more than 4 on this one'. It was usually an 80 yard midi dissapearing in to the trees. Steve Lovatt learned that it was not the best idea. Now, his shoots are a firm test, but top blokes can put in big scores if all is well.
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Emmsy
Guest
id rather a 60+ yd bird showing belly than a 30yd edge on anyday
distance is a poor thing to moan about in my opinion, push em out and making them still hitable is the trick. personally im bored of the close flippy floppy crap that we seem to see week in week out which resembles absolutely nothing like a game target would.
maybe if everyone was graded from the high gun score and not overall score they wouldnt be so unhappy when the targets get a little tougher.
distance is a poor thing to moan about in my opinion, push em out and making them still hitable is the trick. personally im bored of the close flippy floppy crap that we seem to see week in week out which resembles absolutely nothing like a game target would.
maybe if everyone was graded from the high gun score and not overall score they wouldnt be so unhappy when the targets get a little tougher.
Clynt
Well-known member
Clynt
Well-known member
Can't understand the total negativity regarding targets at distance ?? does this not bring the extremes of variation into sporting, is it simply the fact that shooters who can put together a biggish score on boring easy targets find it hard to see leeeead over 2ft and stands like mentioned dent the ego ?? or is it something else ? surely the challenge is put there to test us....
Too many shooters fall at the first hurdle on strong targets, simply because they do not face them weekly, and choose to find easier shoots, which may not be the best way to improve their ability. if the competition is too easy is there really any point.
There is NO quick fix in clay shooting, the boys at the top did not get there in 6 months, so don't kid your self on your ability and learn to read whats thrown in front of you whether it's 40 yds or 65 yds put the shot there and it WILL break (but not with fibre 8's and 1/4 choke) .
Too many shooters fall at the first hurdle on strong targets, simply because they do not face them weekly, and choose to find easier shoots, which may not be the best way to improve their ability. if the competition is too easy is there really any point.
There is NO quick fix in clay shooting, the boys at the top did not get there in 6 months, so don't kid your self on your ability and learn to read whats thrown in front of you whether it's 40 yds or 65 yds put the shot there and it WILL break (but not with fibre 8's and 1/4 choke) .
I have nothing against distance so long as I can see it!!! A 50+ yd black clay, zipping along edge on against against a almost black background feels like an eyesight test as much as anything!!!
They had a pair of crows the same day, looked like 45 and 60 yds, great, straighted them.
p.s. no fiberwad 8's, the crowd got 7's through 1/2 3/4, the black edge on got 3/4 of the same.....
They had a pair of crows the same day, looked like 45 and 60 yds, great, straighted them.
p.s. no fiberwad 8's, the crowd got 7's through 1/2 3/4, the black edge on got 3/4 of the same.....
I'm no great shot but I totally agree. When you first graduate from club targets and see them at 45yds+ it's all a bit daunting, but you learn. I'd rather have a long fast 50yd battue than some floating, curling, drifting dropper at 25yds.
Someone said recently that there's a CPSA rule that 50yds is the maximum distance allowable at reg shoots. Is that true?
I think it's fairly obvious you weren't there Clynt, :???: so easy to give it large from behind a keyboard about disssssstance. I have nothing against distance as long as the stand and the shoot overall have balance. As mentioned already nobody bar GD got to even 90 and don't go thinking all who shot were club target wannabes. The valley stand was stupid, sorry you seem good enough to live with 75 yard edge on loopers but give the rest of us a chance hey?
If you re-read my first post you'll notice I watched 7 people shoot with only a handful of single strike breaks, that ain't savvy target setting, it's catching people out by distance. Fortunately for me I CAN hit the odd target close or far so let me have my moment (moan) if you weren't even there.
So according to you I take it there is no such thing as a silly presentation?
If you re-read my first post you'll notice I watched 7 people shoot with only a handful of single strike breaks, that ain't savvy target setting, it's catching people out by distance. Fortunately for me I CAN hit the odd target close or far so let me have my moment (moan) if you weren't even there.
So according to you I take it there is no such thing as a silly presentation?
The only rule is that the target should be within the range of a 12 bore shotgun. So how far is that then? Three quarter choke with Sovereign Fitasc 61/2 load with a belly-on standard clay. Seem to remember someone breaking clays at some extreme distance not long ago. It was certainly more than 50 yards.
I agree with Hammy. Extreme range is not clever target setting, its stupid and achieves nothing but frustration and bad feeling.
Clynt
Well-known member
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Hammy you are right. Clynt, you assume that this is a distance whinge, which is not the whole matter. The main issue as Tobi said at the top is that there were 3 stands that were real gruellers. One would have been fine. Childerhouse on 87 says much.
Clynt
Well-known member
Did Chris moan about it ? would be surprised if he did !!! will speak to him and get his views because if I can finish 5 or 6 behind Chris I dead happy
Will Hewland
Well-known member
The likes of Chris end up about 4-7 targets down at a gruelling shoot, so don't suffer too badly. You are a very experienced shot so likely have a similar experience. However the shoot is on for everybody..
It's a good example of 'you'll never please everybody'.
I don't have a problem with hitting the score I did on Sunday. However I would rather have 12 firm stands rather than 6 easy ones, 2 medium and 3 horrors. Just my opinion..
It's a good example of 'you'll never please everybody'.
I don't have a problem with hitting the score I did on Sunday. However I would rather have 12 firm stands rather than 6 easy ones, 2 medium and 3 horrors. Just my opinion..
Sorry Clynt for the tone of my post. The thing is Chris, and people of his calibre don't go around criticising targets particularly if they have shot below their average. I like distance as it happens but it has to be tempered with face and enough window for a makable, repeatable shot that needs only skill to make a max a possibility rather than a probability.
Clynt
Well-known member
agree but that is why we have the lettered classes and after all 87 is a AAA score. I just think there needs to be something for every one and if that means a 50-60 yd bird well so be it . the scores of 90+ are effecting all the classes perception of what is expected of every one more and more. it is possible for someone to go from B to AA with out ever taking a prize that cannot be good for our sport long term
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Emmsy
Guest
hodnet throw distance targets with belly proving the point that the distance alone isnt the issue, and as you point out most of these can be broken with 1/4 - 1/2 no problem
There are basically five factors involved in target difficulty, distance, speed, angle, target orientation and window of opportunity or sweet spot if you like. The only one of these able on it's own of defeating attempts to break it is distance, followed by speed and in my view the last three factors taking equal third depending on conditions.
One or two is often enough to confuse most of us. If you combine too many of these in the wrong order then you make the task beyond what is reasonable, that's all I'm saying. The teal we had for example was fast, far, visually obscured by trees early on and beyond sweet spot when properly seen and you were wrong footed by the presentation of the first bird. The same bird would be excellent as the first of a pair without the hindrance of trees.
One or two is often enough to confuse most of us. If you combine too many of these in the wrong order then you make the task beyond what is reasonable, that's all I'm saying. The teal we had for example was fast, far, visually obscured by trees early on and beyond sweet spot when properly seen and you were wrong footed by the presentation of the first bird. The same bird would be excellent as the first of a pair without the hindrance of trees.
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
Spot on mate.
