Classification System

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For the record I don't recall anyone making any direct or derogatory remarks about this particular shooter, we are just discussing the class system.

 
I shot with Rosie on the same squad at the EO and she worked bloody hard for her score, she ground it out, all credit to her an excellent ambassador for the sport and like Jess just the kind of young people we should be encouraging and nurturing.

 
Look its simples, it doesn't matter what class you are in you HAVE to shoot a AA or A class score on the day to win anything end of.,..

PS - I speak only about trap as do not know about that other stuff.

 
clayclouter said:
I shot with Rosie on the same squad at the EO and she worked bloody hard for her score, she ground it out, all credit to her an excellent ambassador for the sport and like Jess just the kind of young people we should be encouraging and nurturing.
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Yes but can we get back to the point this is about class system and not about one shooter or one comp in fact this is nothing at all to do with anyone specific.

 
im afraid ips it does because when one questions a particular score relating to classification, regardless  of your intent, then  the shooter is inevitably implicated in what you might be talking about although clearly you did not intend such.

 
ips said:
Look its simples, it doesn't matter what class you are in you HAVE to shoot a AA or A class score on the day to win anything end of.,..

PS - I speak only about trap as do not know about that other stuff.
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Well said Ian ,and it does apply to other disciplines too.

 
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Right that's me done with this one. 

Yet again some people may be taking parts of the content of this topic literally and reading a simple example (not made by me as I allways use hyperthetical scenarios) as a derogatory comment about a specific person.

My last word is this.

Stuff what class you are in and stuff it if you are a man, woman or child it doesn't mean anything. We all know that you have to shoot a very very good score and much better than you usually do on the day to win. This is the challenge.

I am out.

 
ips said:
For the record I don't recall anyone making any direct or derogatory remarks about this particular shooter, we are just discussing the class system.
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Ian - I wasn't having a go at anyone I am just very protective of Jess and it was in response to this comment

'English Skeet Open last weekend and a C class shooter gets 98? Hardly inspires others in that class to stump up the extra for prizes knowing that more often than not you will need to shoot an AA score to be in with a shout of a prize'

I was just tryng to explain that Jess was not sandbagging but worked hard and practiced at the ground were the shoot was held - 3 of the 5 100 straights also came from our regular shooters - as did the class win in B, the Colts prize and the Ladies. The 98 in C was not down to a faulty classification system but down to bloody hard work and specific time spent training and practicing for a particular event. 2nd in C class was a 96 and joint 3rd was 94 so it was not like the winning score was that far ahead.

 
Well as I suspected this was bound to be a contentious issue. Personally I don't see why shooters of all disciplines cant be classed after each registered shoot, this allows for averages to reflect changing seasons, different grounds and shoots where the course setter has had a sense of humour failure and AA is won on a 65!

As for non registered shoots, well you get what you get, sand bagging all the way, one reason I rarely shoot them. I dont like the idea of losing the prize money, ok its not going to fund the shooting but it is nice to get something back when you have shot particulary well, which is why I like the reclassification after each registered shoot idea.

But a lot of you have raised some excellent points, question now is, how do we, the paying members of OUR association get things changed?

 
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Absolutely Jules, I will expand a bit when I get home on laptop instead of phone, but, before I booked the eo skeet I knew from past majors I had to shoot 96, 97, 98 to be in with a shot of winning C. That's just the way it is. If I had brought my A game, who knows? I have 2 straights in the same competition round before and 24's coming out of my wazzoo so if something had clicked there was no reason why I couldn't have put that score in. The guy in second on 96 shot a pb as well, he started his skeet journey at about the same time I did so is rapidly improving, should we take away the glory of a medal for a hard earned pb as its not within the class limit or congratulate him and up our own games for next time?

I know which camp I'm in and I know what score i need next year already, 100 gets you a shoot off in A then the pressure really is on :D

 
I didn’t intend to implicate one individual or even one event – it was just the most recent ESK example. Agreed anyone can potentially shoot out of their skin and get a top score on the day – I have nothing but respect for anyone who can pull that off in a comp. I was more referring to the prize money and funding of said prize money on the back of Fuzrats post. If new shooters like myself are joining the world of Registered events and are faced with competing against such high scores then they are likely to think why bother paying the extra for prize entry, as a result the prize fund gets smaller and then others start to think what is the point as even if I do win I am not likely to get much back. It’s a vicious circle but I guess that just shows how competitive this sport is even with its relatively small numbers compared to mainstream sports.
 
ips said:
This is an excellent point to debate.

IMO it matters not what criteria you set for classification there will always be someone who shoots very well on the day and wins with a score way in excess of the class average.

Lets take for example DTL. an A class shooter needs to average approx 277 - 288 points to stay in A but when was the last time you ever saw any comp were A class was won with a 288 ..... never.

My point is that IMO classes are a nonsense and too much emphasis is put on them. Yes its nice to say you are AA but in reality unless you are at the top end of AA you will prob never win anything. Also if you choose to shoot in winter (trap anyway) your averages WILL be kept lower.

This idea may be nonsense but what about .......... do away with classes entirely (incl lady and child etc) and just pay further down the leader board. ??
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Eh? That is what classes do!!! Why not just do away with competition altogether then? No winners or losers...why not just all shoot practice rounds, everybody put £5 in a hat and draw a raffle...

 
The EO probably isn't the best example to look at when talking about general classifications and payouts at registered shoots as it is a major championship that has bigger entries and therefore always going to be won with big scores.

In Skeet - C Class cash winners at our ground are normally between 85 and 92 (85 - 88 falls in the C Class average and 89 - 92 falls within the B Class range)

If you want to win at anything you have to be better than average so I don't think this falls too far outside of that.

I think the classification system is pretty fair to be honest.

(Edited to fix typos)

 
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Oh Bugger you have forced me back. :(

Darkside - i think as usual you have not understood me so let me clarify my point.

The chances are that in many cases the top 2 or 3 winners per class will be in the top ten on the leader board so why not just pay down to for example 1 in 5 so top ten in a 50 entry. Who cares what class your in as you have to shoot a top score to win any class at least you do in trap. My other point was that whatever system you use it will always be the case that your averages do not neccasarily reflect your ability due various reasons. I set out to win high gun i very rarely do but that is the intention and i believe that if you set off to win lets say C or B class then you are holding yourself back psychologicaly and therefore will probably only shoot a C or B class score. I say again you have to shoot a top class score to win any class so the classification system on that basis is a nonsense. Hope that clarifies it for you.

Ps - who said anything about doing away with comp ... I certainly didnt i allways shoot comp. Havent gone birds only for 20 odd years.

Pps - would you be so kind as to read the post properly next time or at least reply to it with more clarity.

Many thanks, kind regards, smiley face .. blah blah etc.

 
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Unfortunately when there is a money element, some will go to any length's to win, so sandbagging will always be there ?

Personally I don't agree with the NSSA method of classification either, as some shooters purposely shoot 5 poor scores before they

shoot any majors over here or the World Championships in America just to get down in class.

I missed AA Class in skeet 12 month's ago literally by 0.1 (96) average, and was afforded the sandbagging tag, then 6 month's ago got

into AA Class by .5 (96.5) and then have some say I'm not a AA Class shooter and should be in A Class so you cannot win.

 I now tend to shoot birds only, as the prize money side of things to me does not matter.  :no:

 
Ray

you are so right, there is such a fine line separating the classes and your scenario proves that you just cant win (pardon the pun)

 
Mis-calculated should be staying in AA Class as my 97 at end of April should keep my average at 96    :spiteful:  

 
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