Clay shooting as a none member of the CPSA

[Salopian]

In the last few weeks a number of people (CPSA members) have told me that they will not be renewing their membership and will just shoot 'straw balers' .

Well I have news for those people .

Last week three ground owners told me that they will not refuse my entries next year at registered shoots. It is their businesses and they will accept entry fees off anyone (' bandits') money and scores will not affect CPSA or anyone else.

So bear that in mind if you cease to be a CPSA member, but what a way for the competitors to view their National representative association?

Maybe we should make everyone aware of the above?

Maybe the CPSA need to plug the hole in the membership dyke before all the money leaks away.

 

 

[ips]

So are you saying that a none cpsa member can shoot a reg comp and win money from cpsa members but obviously there score will not be listed also how do they intend to class you.

 

[Hotshot100]

So are you saying that a none cpsa member can shoot a reg comp and win money from cpsa members but obviously there score will not be listed also how do they intend to class you.

I think that it will be classed as practice although I see no reason why a none CPSA member should be excluded from taking a High Gun prize as long as they have paid the appropriate entry fee.

Some grounds have already been doing this for some time now. Ground owners can't afford to turn business away in these hard times and many would cease to hold registered shoots if the CPSA became too heavy handed with them.

 

[ips]

This is a difficult one.

Yes ground owners have to (in fact need to for all our benefit) make money however CPSA reg events have historicaly been members only comps and also a fully paid up member may be a bit pished off if a none member takes the prize money, so there is a dilemma here is there not.

 

[Hotshot100]

This is a difficult one.

Yes ground owners have to (in fact need to for all our benefit) make money however CPSA reg events have historicaly been members only comps and also a fully paid up member may be a bit pished off if a none member takes the prize money, so there is a dilemma here is there not.

It all got changed 2 years ago Ian. This was something that I instigated during a meeting with Nick Fellows and following an interview with James Marchington which was published in the September 2011 Clay Shooting magazine.

Any none member can shoot in up to 3 registered shoots after which the CPSA are supposed to try to get them to join.The clubs are supposed to send these peoples details to the CPSA so that they can monitor them.

Needless to say this doesn't happen so the grounds are taking advantage of this. Simon Barber was supposed to have clarified the situation in Pull magazine 2 or 3 issues ago but hasn't so far.

This is probably because they know that it is a situation that is impossible to control properly.

 

[ips]

Sounds totally un enforceable to me too.

 

[no.1topdog]

Non CPSA shooters can shoot registered events but only on a "Birds Only" basis but they have to pay a levy (£1-£2) to join as a Day Member.(For insurance purposes).

They are not eligible for prizes or titles so may not enter the competition proper.

If anybody says this is a bad idea then think of us in the South West having fairly recently lost or losing soon, Newnham Park, Podimore, Wylie Valley and Southern Counties according to rumour. All down to reduced revenue? Not sure but I'm sure every penny counts at the moment.

If you are a Sporting Shooter in Devon and don't like to travel too far for your sport, then you are reduced to the smaller clubs and "straw balers", or shooting at the same ground, week-in week-out if you have one near you. (For a Sporting Shooter this is boring and does not enhace your skills & target knowledge which would allow you compete at a higher level around the country should you want to.

It really has been a case of "It's our ball and you cannot play with it" for ages, and about time shooters realised that Ground Owners are trying to run a business, not an elite club for the few.

"Phew! That's off my chest then!! Comments please, I've got my tin hat on!

 

[VicW]

I would reckon that ground owners will let anyone shoot at a registered shoot if it means they continue in business..

The CPSA registered entries can still can still shoot as they do now and the non registered entries,for a lower entry fee, can shoot for the pleasure of shooting a competition course and maybe putting in a better score than the registered entries.

Would this not be better than 'only shooting straw bailers and club shoots' which may not be so challenging.

If,eventually,registered shoots fall by the wayside then all shoots could be open shoots with classes decided on the day by the tried and tested method of nominating five or six stands of varying difficulty to determine a shooters class.The class divisions could be the same as they are now and a shooter could still progress up the classes simply by improving as they do now.

Vic.

 

[shootinguru]

:fie:  Here is a question for all of you "Experts" what does the CPSA do for the groundowner and! why would the ground owner need the CPSA? :king:

:hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:

 

[no.1topdog]

:fie:  Here is a question for all of you "Experts" what does the CPSA do for the groundowner and! why would the ground owner need the CPSA? :king:

:hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:

There's 2 parts to this question as I see it.

Part 1. Allows them the "Right" to hold "Their" competitions under "Their" rules. (Wanted to say "Nothing" but to be fair to them......."

Part 2. -------------------- Nope! Can't think of anything.

P.S. Nice to see you are still about Cyril!

 

[Hotshot100]

Non CPSA shooters can shoot registered events but only on a "Birds Only" basis but they have to pay a levy (£1-£2) to join as a Day Member.(For insurance purposes).

They are not eligible for prizes or titles so may not enter the competition proper.

If anybody says this is a bad idea then think of us in the South West having fairly recently lost or losing soon, Newnham Park, Podimore, Wylie Valley and Southern Counties according to rumour. All down to reduced revenue? Not sure but I'm sure every penny counts at the moment.

If you are a Sporting Shooter in Devon and don't like to travel too far for your sport, then you are reduced to the smaller clubs and "straw balers", or shooting at the same ground, week-in week-out if you have one near you. (For a Sporting Shooter this is boring and does not enhace your skills & target knowledge which would allow you compete at a higher level around the country should you want to.

It really has been a case of "It's our ball and you cannot play with it" for ages, and about time shooters realised that Ground Owners are trying to run a business, not an elite club for the few.

"Phew! That's off my chest then!! Comments please, I've got my tin hat on!

At the ground owners discretion they do not have to purchase a day pass for the first three shoots.

 

[Hotshot100]

The only negative I can see with this, is would the non member have any sort of insurance or would the onus be put on the ground owner.

All grounds should be insured. After all there are very few,if any, that only hold registered shoots.

 

[no.1topdog]

At the ground owners discretion they do not have to purchase a day pass for the first three shoots.

Not trying to hijack this topic, but this means some shooters could be shooting amongst you possibly without ANY insurance to protect themselves and the other shooters?

Been a while since I was a CPSA member so I'm guessing the rules have changed but the day levy included the insurance element for everybodys protection. Perhaps a step in the wrong direction?

Anyone want to guess how much compensation was paid to a guy I know when a piece of broken clay from an overhead target, shot by another shooter in the stand, hit him on the head, breaking his very expensive glasses, tearing his hat and requiring 12 stitches? The ground owner was sued as was the shooter who broke the clay. Luckily their associations insurance paid up.

 

[RobertBeard]

Non CPSA shooters can shoot registered events but only on a "Birds Only" basis but they have to pay a levy (£1-£2) to join as a Day Member.(For insurance purposes).

They are not eligible for prizes or titles so may not enter the competition proper.

If anybody says this is a bad idea then think of us in the South West having fairly recently lost or losing soon, Newnham Park, Podimore, Wylie Valley and Southern Counties according to rumour. All down to reduced revenue? Not sure but I'm sure every penny counts at the moment.

If you are a Sporting Shooter in Devon and don't like to travel too far for your sport, then you are reduced to the smaller clubs and "straw balers", or shooting at the same ground, week-in week-out if you have one near you. (For a Sporting Shooter this is boring and does not enhace your skills & target knowledge which would allow you compete at a higher level around the country should you want to.

It really has been a case of "It's our ball and you cannot play with it" for ages, and about time shooters realised that Ground Owners are trying to run a business, not an elite club for the few.

"Phew! That's off my chest then!! Comments please, I've got my tin hat on!

I am sure that all the above is right and it certainly is as regards the paucity of sporting grounds to shoot at in the South West!

One point I would like clarification on and that is the levy of £1-£2 for insurance purposes?  I already have insurance valid for clay pigeon shooting via the NSRA (National Small-bore Rifle Association)  If I were to resign from CPSA because of all the politics why should I have to pay for insurance or is this a mandatory fee for a non-member to come out to play at a registered shoot and is not really insurance at all?  I assume that this will also apply to all those who are BASC members as well. 

 

[Jan Powell]

Nothing new here, you can currently shoot registered events as a non member. The 'green fee' was abolished a couple of years ago.

Strictly speaking you are only allowed to do it three times before you must join although it's neither enforced by the ground or the CPSA.

 

[ips]

Surely if we choose to shoot, particularly incoming target then its up to us to wear (or choose not too) the necessary PPE and also accept that there is a risk involved. Suing someone who's bit of clay hit you is IMO ridiculous. Soon we will have accident claims people camping out at clay grounds.

 

[Hotshot100]

Nothing new here, you can currently shoot registered events as a non member. The 'green fee' was abolished a couple of years ago.

Strictly speaking you are only allowed to do it three times before you must join although it's neither enforced by the ground or the CPSA.

Quite right and exactly what I said earlier. Thanks for backing me up. I put a lot of time and effort in to bringing this change about.

I don't think it would happen now.

 

[Hotshot100]

Surely if we choose to shoot, particularly incoming target then its up to us to wear (or choose not too) the necessary PPE and also accept that there is a risk involved. Suing someone who's bit of clay hit you is IMO ridiculous. Soon we will have accident claims people camping out at clay grounds.

Madness, as I said earlier all grounds should be insured against these sort of eventualities. If you find one that's not, then vote with your feet.

 

[Santa2512]

If i recall,  When i did Archery, the governing body was GNAS,  part of which was your public liablity insurance, and also if i recall they covered your clubs public liability insurance

However you did not have to be GNAS afilliated to shoot in a competition. As long as you could prove you had your own public liability insurance, you could shoot at registered comps, and were eligble to take prizes. 

After all was a competition

I dont see why it should be any different for clays.   Once you have paid your entry fee, that should be it.

Another difference we had with archery, was it was payment or deposit up front for a comp, if you didnt show, then you lost your fee.  (unless there were exceptional circumstances)

Our annual open shoot  (84 archers ) was more often than not, over subscribed  and we used to have to add an additional butt or two 

Mart