Coaching from a multiple world champion (a real one)

[k80ben]

It can’t be that simple, some  people cheat to succeed. 

A lot do I agree wholeheartedly unfortunately it’s never ever been proven 

 

[ehb102]

That was a bit of a rubbish statement upthread there. I've had coaching from a world champion who was not as good as the very experienced BASC coach who only holds national titles (I think). It depends entirely on the individual. I've had coaching from other world champions who are incredibly good at articulating to me what I need to do and getting me to do it. It also depends on the level of coaching you need. Having had coaching from a World Champion as a novice, these days I'd say it's a bit like feeding strawberries to a donkey, extravagant and probably not fully appreciated. The best coaching I ever had was from someone who didn't hold a single title but was an exceptional coach and a very good shot. 

There are an awful lot of champions kicking around in shooting. Some days I think I'm the only one out there without a national title.

 

[Will Hewland]

It is all about the level you require. One very successful and ex champion coach admits that you don’t need to spend money on him if you’re a beginner. Although that doesn’t mean you need somebody clueless, as beginners need putting on the right track of course. It’s certainly Ok for a beginner to start out with a basic CPSA type coach, but chances are some greater depth is needed once you start rising through the classes.  
 

As some have said, there are definitely some great shots who either don’t analyse their own shooting enough to be able to pass it on, or as a person, communication to others is simply not their strength. 

I coach a bit and it always seems to help the pupil, or frankly I wouldn’t do it. I freely admit I’m no champion but I’m very much method driven (almost overly so) and I confine myself to those who I know I can definitely take forward. In the unlikely event that a AA shot asked me to help him I’d explain that I probably couldn’t add much. 

 

[k80ben]

It is all about the level you require. One very successful and ex champion coach admits that you don’t need to spend money on him if you’re a beginner. Although that doesn’t mean you need somebody clueless, as beginners need putting on the right track of course. It’s certainly Ok for a beginner to start out with a basic CPSA type coach, but chances are some greater depth is needed once you start rising through the classes.  
 

As some have said, there are definitely some great shots who either don’t analyse their own shooting enough to be able to pass it on, or as a person, communication to others is simply not their strength. 

I coach a bit and it always seems to help the pupil, or frankly I wouldn’t do it. I freely admit I’m no champion but I’m very much method driven (almost overly so) and I confine myself to those who I know I can definitely take forward. In the unlikely event that a AA shot asked me to help him I’d explain that I probably couldn’t add much. 

Totally agree. We need all levels of coaches but when they step up to a full time professional coach a lot of changes will need to made. As the beginner coach does a lot wrong but starts them on their journey. And for value for money I’d rather be on the right path from the start. 
 

but once again I believe we need all levels to accommodate everyone

That was a bit of a rubbish statement upthread there. I've had coaching from a world champion who was not as good as the very experienced BASC coach who only holds national titles (I think). It depends entirely on the individual. I've had coaching from other world champions who are incredibly good at articulating to me what I need to do and getting me to do it. It also depends on the level of coaching you need. Having had coaching from a World Champion as a novice, these days I'd say it's a bit like feeding strawberries to a donkey, extravagant and probably not fully appreciated. The best coaching I ever had was from someone who didn't hold a single title but was an exceptional coach and a very good shot. 

There are an awful lot of champions kicking around in shooting. Some days I think I'm the only one out there without a national title.

Again your opinion is of value to u, and people can side with whomever they decide. (No Basc instructor hold titles)
 

not everyone needs a world champion I’d agree but if they want to be one they do. And I know I can get you to your potential so much faster than a normal coach. 
 

if they knew the ins and outs and little extra bits they be better than they are 

 

[MartynB]

In my experience i can tell you the top international shots (ive had help from) seem to see things almost in slow motion with a greater break down of whats happening through the shot 

A very interesting observation Paul . I can remember reading about Jackie Stewart ( who could have been an Olympic shot ) . He was in his race car at some ridiculous speed when he saw a hare walking onto the track way off . He was able to see , calculate , and process the information and know he could stay on his line without a disaster arising . 

 

[Westward]

not everyone needs a world champion I’d agree

That's rather more sensible than your earlier comment that only world champions are any good as coaches.

Most of us are recreational shooters, by which I mean we don't expect to win anything much more than bragging rights and a bit of beer money now and again. That's not to say we don't care about scores or our own performance, just that it's a hobby and buying instruction or coaching is typically an ad hoc thing rather than a dedicated course of development to reach the highest possible level. 

 

[k80ben]

That's rather more sensible than your earlier comment that only world champions are any good as coaches.

Most of us are recreational shooters, by which I mean we don't expect to win anything much more than bragging rights and a bit of beer money now and again. That's not to say we don't care about scores or our own performance, just that it's a hobby and buying instruction or coaching is typically an ad hoc thing rather than a dedicated course of development to reach the highest possible level. 

Not really more sensible as I stand by the first comment. A lot of money is wasted on idiotic coaching as they simply don’t know what they’re doing and more importantly your doing. 
 

Very few high quality coaching in the Uk less than a handful 

 

[El Spavo]

Very few high quality coaching in the Uk less than a handful 

... And all costing a bomb so a lot of us are probably just cracking on at our own rate and leaving that to those who have either 5% genuine aspirations or 95% delusional. 

 

[k80ben]

... And all costing a bomb so a lot of us are probably just cracking on at our own rate and leaving that to those who have either 5% genuine aspirations or 95% delusional. 

I bet I’m cheaper than most these clowns. Yes some people charge way more than there worth 

 

[MartynB]

You pay your money and you make your choice . Before the game season I normally go for a couple of brush up lessons on the high tower .  My normal choice of instructor is an ex British Champion , who has shot everything  that can be shot  , including a successful stint on the Live Pigeon Circuit . He also does on the peg game  coaching if that’s your thing . The year before last he was unavailable for some reason, and I was recommended  by a mate to go see Mr X at let’s call it ground Y which has  a great high tower . Now , I’m a happy plodder , but when Mr X told me that accelerating the gun would induce an arc into the shot string , I realised I’d just pissed a hundred quid away . Guess which one I’ll be going back to in October . 

 

[AtaSP]

I bet I’m cheaper than most these clowns. Yes some people charge way more than there worth 

Having only had a couple of lessons about 10 years ago off a cpsa instructor,(recently got back into shooting after a 6 year break) i’d be interested to know a ballpark figure of what a coach of your standard would charge?

 

[jwpzx9r]

That’s because they’re Wold Champions in name only. Take, for example the World ABT championship. Can you honestly claim to be a World Champion if almost the entire entry is British? The same can be said for most other domestic disciplines.

That’s not to diminish the achievement of the winner. They’ve shot well to top the leaderboard but a World Champion? Not really.

The only true World class shooters are found shooting ISSF events where success can be measured against genuine international competition.

I disagree UT is a world championship event shot by entrants from all over the globe... some shooters who are ISSF entries shoot it too ... 

As to Mr Diamond, one of the greatest ever shooters, I would be grateful just to meet and speak with him never mind get a coaching session from him! 

You pay your money and you make your choice . Before the game season I normally go for a couple of brush up lessons on the high tower .  My normal choice of instructor is an ex British Champion , who has shot everything  that can be shot  , including a successful stint on the Live Pigeon Circuit . He also does on the peg game  coaching if that’s your thing . The year before last he was unavailable for some reason, and I was recommended  by a mate to go see Mr X at let’s call it ground Y which has  a great high tower . Now , I’m a happy plodder , but when Mr X told me that accelerating the gun would induce an arc into the shot string , I realised I’d just pissed a hundred quid away . Guess which one I’ll be going back to in October . 

He actually said the words "shot string" and you never burst out laughing? I would have demanded a refund and walked off Did he say anything about using open chokes to reduce recoil and shorten the "shot string"? 

 

[Robden]

I disagree UT is a world championship event shot by entrants from all over the globe... some shooters who are ISSF entries shoot it too ... 

As to Mr Diamond, one of the greatest ever shooters, I would be grateful just to meet and speak with him never mind get a coaching session from him! 

He actually said the words "shot string" and you never burst out laughing? I would have demanded a refund and walked off Did he say anything about using open chokes to reduce recoil and shorten the "shot string"? 

But surely, that only works if you stand on one leg.......on a Thursday...........in the afternoon...........in the rain.

 

[DavidJ]

Having only had a couple of lessons about 10 years ago off a cpsa instructor,(recently got back into shooting after a 6 year break) i’d be interested to know a ballpark figure of what a coach of your standard would charge?

Ben's currently £75 an hour. Unbelievable value for money and seriously good coaching.

There's others out there charging double this.

 

[jwpzx9r]

But surely, that only works if you stand on one leg.......on a Thursday...........in the afternoon...........in the rain.

Missed out the essential tweed hat!

 

[LeedsZeppelin]

Ben's currently £75 an hour. Unbelievable value for money and seriously good coaching.

There's others out there charging double this.

Wow. That's way cheaper than I thought he would be.

I have been contemplating some lessons with a local coach who is at a higher hourly rate. I may have to reconsider.

 

[donna]

Wow. That's way cheaper than I thought he would be.

I have been contemplating some lessons with a local coach who is at a higher hourly rate. I may have to reconsider.

It will be the best £75 you’ve ever spent I promise you! 

 

[bostonmick]

Just out of interest how many world titles does one have to win to be a multiple world champion.now we all know George is but when do you stop being say a double or triple and so on and become multiple.

 

[JDL]

More than one is enough for this.
I only need two more…

 

[Joe Nash]

Agreed but step into the world of sporting, the formula 1 and no world champion that’s coached has been coached by someone other than a world champion. 
 

we’re a simple sport if u can’t do it u can’t teach it. 

Ben, Mike Gammon told me he taught you to shoot when you were a kid. Is this right. ???

Agreed but step into the world of sporting, the formula 1 and no world champion that’s coached has been coached by someone other than a world champion. 
 

we’re a simple sport if u can’t do it u can’t teach it. 

Ben, Mike Gammon told me he taught you to shoot when you were a kid. Is this right. ???