Covid tier system.

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Essential to work in teir 3 from a tier 2 because their all sick in tier 3, so I bring it back to tier 2 if I'm unlucky enough.

I live in a tier 2 and the amount of tourist around the place from hot spots is unbelivable, a lot on furlough are treating it as one big hoiliday with days out

 
Just seen the news. Look at all these dumb f**ks leaving London tonight. Trying to beat tier 4 restrictions. Super spreaders. 

I give up. Just give me the ***. Only way out with these idiots risking us all. 

That's it from me. Nothing else to say . Literally gobsmacked.

I'm out. 

Seasons greeting to you all. 

Stay safe. 

Jasper

 
Just seen the news. Look at all these dumb f**ks leaving London tonight. Trying to beat tier 4 restrictions. Super spreaders. 

I give up. Just give me the ***. Only way out with these idiots risking us all. 

That's it from me. Nothing else to say . Literally gobsmacked.

I'm out. 

Seasons greeting to you all. 

Stay safe. 

Jasper
Totally agree with you Jasper. I’m in tier 4, had to close my business down again last night.  My dad is terminally ill, we don’t know whether weve got him for a few weeks or a few months, we are being so careful knowing the risks and then 3 days ago his elderly neighbour got rushed into hospital with COVID, the guys 2 granddaughters had been abroad, didn’t bother isolating, went round to visit nan and grandad and gave him COVID.  Outlook extremely bleak for this old gentleman.  People are just so selfish. I would just love for these people to think about what they’re doing before they do it and think ahead and what the consequences of their actions are.  No visiting relations for us at all, we will be on our own with Pip and that’s the right thing to do.  Take care everyone and stay safe.

 
It's long been understood that the population will only adhere to rules that make sense or which are not totally onerous and many are aware that the scientists have been both selective, and in more than one instance, dishonest about both the true and potential scale of infections.

I'm not advocating breaking the rules, but I do understand the exodus because we're not hearing properly analysed figures and as such it's worth looking at the rise in infections in a different context. The point is that there may not be a real rise in infections simply because we are now testing almost half a million people every day and a percentage of them are bound to test positive even if they're not especially unwell. The vast majority of such cases would not have been included in the figures a month ago.

 
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It isn't just about the rise in infections, it's about the rise in people requiring hospitalisation. My brother works in a London hospital, through the summer the numbers in ICU with it could be counted on your fingers and toes. It's now almost back to the levels in late March / early April. The number has doubled in the last week.

Really don't want it to get to the level that they have to open the Nightingale hospitals. They don't have the trained ICU staff to run those properly and they are effectively just giant dying rooms.

I've gone from Tier 2 on Friday, to Tier 3 yesterday and now Tier 4 today. At the moment I think my gun is going to get a really thorough clean and left in the cabinet for a week or two (or more) until case numbers drop and I feel comfortable with the risk of going out for a local practice.

 
I've worked all through this, not health care appliance repairs, I feel more unsafe doing the job now than I ever did with the first lockdown. The roads are chaos with cars seeming going christmas shopping, people are mixing in households getting ready for christmas, yesterday 6 people in a kitchen having their hair done and not one mask between them.

My company doesn't even see the risk, American owned so no supprise there then, just keeping throwning more work at us and asking all the time if people can work overtime as their very busy, not helped by a lot of the workforce off sick.

All these messages from managers working from the safety of their front room and we just try and plod on, the company only see 🤑

 
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I’m not in anyway shape or form an expert on any of these matters, but I am close to some folks who are. 
 

I can only convey what little I have learned over the last few months and the conclusions I have personally drawn, shared in the hope that folks may find hope in these difficult times. 
 

The company I work for develops scientific instruments for creating monoclonal cells. A key part in the vaccine development and our instrument, provided free of charge to the Oxford/Pfeifer team some months ago.

It is somewhat fair to say that the testing process is not without its shortcomings. It’s fair to say that more testing would equal more data and more positives (also more negatives).

The statistical models derived from the data is also not without some shortcomings, but...

Let’s look at the alternative. Don’t test at all. That way we cannot be duped by false positives or false negatives or reported rise or fall in cases. 
 

The corridors of the hospitals will be less easy to deny than the data and reports. The morgues could not be so easily dismissed as misleading government lies and manipulations. 
 

This is in some ways “just a seasonal flu” but it’s also not just a seasonal flu. Each of the dozen or so ‘flu’ type virus, themselves are but in tiny bunch in many billions of viruses which are constantly evolving and adapting. 
 

It’s useful to know the difference between a virus contagiousness and and it’s efficacy. Whilst Covid 19 is very contagious it isn’t particularly high in mortality rate. However, 1% of 7bn people is an awful death toll. 
 

Now some have advocated just letting the virus rip. Well build up our immunity naturally and of course it will cost lives, but that’s kinda unavoidable anyway, right?

Well, if only it were that simple. Put aside the ethical debate for a moment and consider the economic impact. Let’s keep it to UK numbers for simplicity. If we had 1/3rd of the workforce infected and 1% death rate, the majority of which would be circa 70 years old and those with the weakest immune system. U.K. deaths rising in a matter of weeks to around ¾ million people. That’s quite a strain on health care and undertakers, not to mention families and their mental wellbeing. On the upside, Hallmark would make a fortune on Condolences cards.

That aside, wed be in the clear after a few months wouldn’t we? Well... no. We really would not. You see viruses need hosts to evolve. The more hosts they can find and the more quickly they can find them the more quickly they can mutate into a new strain that could be less infectious... or MORE infectious. It could evolve into a strain that has lower mortality rate or GREATER mortality rate. 
 

Now if we all stayed home until the virus could find no hosts, we’d be golden, right? Well, again, it doesn’t seem it’s quite that simple. First we’d all probably starve to death whilst we wait it out. Secondly, viruses don’t just die. They can and do lie dormant. In fact viruses aren’t really alive until they find a host. They do not have a metabolism of their own. They steal it from you and in doing so destroy the host. Actually a bit self defeating if you think about it. 
 

So we do have to really get on with life... and death. But we need to do so in a controlled manner. We need a plan. 
 

Now, we need experts to help form this plan. The problem is, there are no experts. The problem being multifaceted one of healthcare, economics, behavioural psychology, logistics, and propaganda . Well, you’re always going to be dammed I you do and dammed if you don’t. As my grandpa used to say “them us can all wrestle wit bull except um whose gotten owd ot horns”

And here’s a thing with propaganda. It’s not always the enemy that uses it and it’s not always used against an enemy. It’s not always used in wartime and it’s not always for nefarious means. 
 

A further complication is that there are groups acting independently of the mainstream and have their own agenda. It hardly helps when these people recruit and pay for expertise that neatly fits a narrative that’s contrary to the one that’s arguably the most helpful.

So, for me and my very scant knowledge and tiny little brain, I see it like this. We have to blindly trust our untrustworthy government to act in our best interests and to trust their “expert” advisor and follow their changing guidelines. We must try to mitigate the rate of infection to manageable levels whilst those who have the education and experience to be able to find a robust solution. For me this didn’t mean living like a hermit, it doesn’t mean throwing caution to the wind either. Simply it meant follow the very flawed advice as it’s the best we have at this moment. Put aside for this very short term of maybe one or two years of mild inconvenience in seventy to maybe a hundred years of our lives for the sake of ourselves and of our children and grandchildren and for the sake of each other. It’s a microscopic sacrifice to help deal with a microscopic enemy of the human species. As my grandpa also used to say “thee can stand on thee ‘ed for a fortnit’
 

So I emplore all to just hold out like it’s the blitz and just put up with it. It will all blow over soon enough and I’m a decade (those of us who remain) will look back on this fleeting moment of existence with a wry smile 

 
The company I work for develops scientific instruments for creating monoclonal cells. A key part in the vaccine development and our instrument, provided free of charge to the Oxford/Pfeifer team some months ago

 
I'm surprised as a so called leader in the field they didn't already have one Lloyd, or did they just need another one 🤔

 
I'm surprised as a so called leader in the field they didn't already have one Lloyd, or did they just need another one 🤔
Systems for creating monoclonal cultures have been around for a very long time. Our system is just another one but offers many advantages over predecessor systems. Automation of low value labour intensity tasks, superior optical clarity, faster assay production, greater efficacy, greater versatility, lower operating costs, faster RoI.

Progress never stops. I’m currently at the detail design stage of our second generation product and am fleshing out the key concepts for our third generation products. 

 
 but...

Let’s look at the alternative. Don’t test at all. That way we cannot be duped by false positives or false negatives or reported rise or fall in cases. 
Clearly, testing is a valuable tool and I'm sure everyone can see that, but it does generate positive results where previously they wouldn't have been recorded, simply because in many cases the infected person would have simply got better in a few days and never known that they had CV19.

What I can't understand is why the recipients of drive through testing aren't analysed separately, because including them leads to yet another change, which is at least the 3rd, in the way the figures are presented for public consumption. It is simply impossible to make valid judgements, decisions or plans if the data collection sources are repeatedly changed.

Obviously the scientists know this must be happening so why do they subscribe to presenting inaccurate figures?

 
Clearly, testing is a valuable tool and I'm sure everyone can see that, but it does generate positive results where previously they wouldn't have been recorded, simply because in many cases the infected person would have simply got better in a few days and never known that they had CV19.

What I can't understand is why the recipients of drive through testing aren't analysed separately, because including them leads to yet another change, which is at least the 3rd, in the way the figures are presented for public consumption. It is simply impossible to make valid judgements, decisions or plans if the data collection sources are repeatedly changed.

Obviously the scientists know this must be happening so why do they subscribe to presenting inaccurate figures?
Great point and not something I can personally answer with any real sense of accuracy, but in a generalist point of view, some data is better than no data, well, up to a point.

Going off on a bit of a tangent, but hopefully helps clarify what I’m thinking...

Lets say for example we wanted to look at the data set on empathy. Social science can do that. So we take 100 people and we’d expect to find  a normal distribution in this sample population. 
so this means about 34 of the folks are neither particularly empathic nor indifferent, about 25 will be fairly empathic, while another 25 will be quite indifferent. The 2 groups of 8 people bookending will be highly empathic and very indifferent. Ok, so this in my illustration shows a model of “some data”. It’s not particularly robust and quite subjective and tells us nothing of any subsets.

Now if we determine this group of 100 is made up of men and women, we would see two plots each showing a roughly normal distribution. We would likely see that 17 women compared within their subset also show neither empathy nor indifference. The men would also show this same pattern of distribution, but compare these now two independent sunsets and we would see a disparity between the two. It is likely that the 4 most indifferent women would compare well with the 4 most empathic men. The 4 least empathic men would be quite cold whilst the 4 most empathic women would be incredibly warm-hearted. This additional data now informs us better and we can use this to make better choices but the total absence of data leaves us totally uninformed. 
 

So yes, the PCR amplification process in the way it’s being conducted (and I believe not every lab does exactly the same things) may well not be ideal, but for a rapid and low cost test it gives us a reasonable answer, that if it tells someone to stay home and their fine, no harm to health done. Possibly mental health, but then if 14 days isolation is tipping you over the edge, it would be my guess that you’ve got a lot of other complications going on that are more likely to be the root cause of your problems. If the test result is a false negative, sure that’s going to be more damaging. 
 

If you look at it like this, a test that gives 100 % false positives isn’t such a bad thing. Not great, but not bad. A test that gave even just 50% negatives would be pretty much useless. But at anything below the 30% false negative region has a good bias. Now the question of is that good value, well it depends on how you frame the value proposition. On money alone, probably not. On lives alone... it makes a strong argument.

Furthermore, you also need to check how the process efficacy is being determined. You can’t say someone testing a voltage with a Ohm meter is wrong because your guessing it’s around the 240 volts mark. To test your hypothesis you need a gauge more robust than your experiment.

In summary, what we have is far from perfect, but it’s better than nowt 

I would also add that what is presented to we the proletariat is almost always a dumbed down version of what the scientists will be using themselves and the media do have a propensity to fudge even this, particularly if they have their own agenda

 
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Just one point Lloyd a Ohm meter tests resistance and Volt meter checks voltage

Unless you have a multi tester which does all when you set it 😉😁

 
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Just one point Lloyd a Ohm meter tests resistance and Volt meter checks voltage

Unless you have a multi tester which does all when you set it 😉😁
Haha. Indeed. I was using a brand name as vernacular. Back in the day, “Ohm” meter was as much a brand as Fluke is today. Showing my age a bit there 😬 

 
Haha. Indeed. I was using a brand name as vernacular. Back in the day, “Ohm” meter was as much a brand as Fluke is today. Showing my age a bit there 😬 
I can remember using the wind up ones for a short while, thats showing your age 😃

 
Looking at the latest government announcement it's highly likely that come boxing day the country will only be teir 3 or teir 4. However looking at the teir 4 rules its seems to me clay shooting can continue in that teir. However I will stand to be corrected if I have misinterpreted those facts. 

 
So long as there is only two of you, unless your household/ bubble

Exercise and recreation

People can also exercise outdoors or visit some public outdoor places, such as parks, the countryside accessible to the public, public gardens or outdoor sports facilities. You can continue to do unlimited exercise alone, or in a public outdoor place with your household, support bubble, or with one other person if you maintain social distancing.

 
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It appears that the Churchill Challenge competition will be possible, I assume in household or bubble, or one other. It runs from 11th Jan for 2 months, so a good opportunity to get a comp in (not reg). 

 

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