Disqualified

[Lloyd]

Apparently so, according to one of the accusations, 12 years old kids were forced to alter the master card, then the said person would alter the moving cards on the way round. True or not? Who knows what really happened. Until an official statement is made from NSCA, then it will all be rumours and conjecture.

But one thing for sure, a high profile shooter has been removed from the results list.

Well, I’m flabbergasted (if true)! Both that a 12 year old has been burdened with such responsibilities, has been put in a position that leaves them open to intimidation, that someone didn’t even consider this, that someone (allegedly) intimidated a 12 years old child, that such a person is (was) considered to be of good standard but has such a lack of moral fibre to stoop so low and for what real gain? It reeks  of immaturity and narcissism.

As a novice, this is disappointing to say the least and I might think twice before entertaining competitive shooting.  Not for the existence of cheating as let’s face it, it’s a fact of life that some degrade themselves this way and I don’t mean by exploiting rules and loopholes as that can be part of the competitive instinct for some but actual blatant and worthless cheating. I’d think twice to enter such a poorly managed and borderline exploitative event. I’d understand if this was something in a developing economy. Frankly it’s disgraceful 

 

[Cosmicblue]

Figured it out, hope it's not true.

 

[MartynB]

If the organisers of a major competition were genuinely using 12 year old children as referees they should be worried about the accuracy of  every score card that came off of those stands . It’s on the same level of stupidity as a 12 year old flag marshal at the IoM TT races ! 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

If the organisers of a major competition were genuinely using 12 year old children as referees they should be worried about the accuracy of  every score card that came off of those stands . It’s on the same level of stupidity as a 12 year old flag marshal at the IoM TT races ! 

cant imagine the usa would allow children to score a championship  ?   I admire the American professionalism  in clay shooting !!! 

 

[P1Fanatic]

Seems like a lot of conjecture from the internet. Even the ground didn't confirm the reason for disqualification. Some folks are talking about card changing but the only “evidence” I’ve come across is a 9 second video about a no bird call so totally unrelated and something that would likely never hold up as cheating (bad sportmanship and weak refereeing yes but not cheating).

 

[timps]

I’ve just posted this elsewhere but might as well post here as well. 

For a bit of background information a chap called Mr.clays on shotgun world has been quite vocal about all of this including bringing it to the attention of the relevant authorities. Most of his posts and the biggest thread on it have been deleted, mainly because there where those that thought due process should be followed rather than Mr.clays being judge jury and executioner on an internet forum and were equally as vocal.

The video in question was not the sole reason of Mr.clays allegations, he did post up and I believe it is still there a picture of the travelling card for the shooter in question (you need to be a forum member to view it), which for some reason was written in pencil. The card in my opinion (yours may vary) appears to be change on what looks like 4 different stands. The question that isn’t answered is who made the changes and for what reason, ref altering a genuine mistake, ref bullied into it or just plain shooter decides to alter his score.

Obviously this is where due process comes in, the ground has made the decision to disqualify, the NSCA  are now reviewing the submitted evidence and might even come to a different decision and that’s where we are at. 

It is how much you believe Mr.clays version of events although he claims to have been the one that reported it. 

 

[El Spavo]

Gosh, it's all jolly exciting!

 

[tiptop]

If the organisers of a major competition were genuinely using 12 year old children as referees they should be worried about the accuracy of  every score card that came off of those stands . It’s on the same level of stupidity as a 12 year old flag marshal at the IoM TT races ! 

cant imagine the usa would allow children to score a championship  ?   I admire the American professionalism  in clay shooting !!! 

As always this is all over FB. 2 different people now, have mentioned that they were using young and inexperienced refs. There are plenty of pictures of the supposed altered travelling card.

If there is alleged cheating in the top ranks, how far down does it go?

So glad I don't waste my hard earned cash travelling to these majors abroad. 

 

[DavidJ]

Here's a video 2019 World English Sporting Championship Red Course @ Northbrook of Diane Sorantino's squad. Watch it through as there's a number of occasions where she has to tell the ref the situation including when the ref thought there was a kill and it wasn't, about 4.25, also look at 9.05.

I haven't time to search for it but there was one stand where she corrected a 'miss' called by the ref to a 'kill'.

From what you can see and hear the refs on this course don't seem as young as 12.

 

[El Spavo]

Here's a video 2019 World English Sporting Championship Red Course @ Northbrook of Diane Sorantino's squad. Watch it through as there's a number of occasions where she has to tell the ref the situation including when the ref thought there was a kill and it wasn't, about 4.25, also look at 9.05.

Well, if nothing else, Mr Berry seems a genuine kind of fella, credit to the sport.

 

[Jonny English]

Statement from the NSCA:

The NSCA Executive Council, along with the NSCA Executive Director, have reached a decision in the disciplinary action case that occurred during the 2019 World English Sporting Clays Championship. The NSCA EC and Executive Director feel that their decision is appropriate, given all evidence. The decision will be disclosed once all interested parties have been notified and the appeals process expires 21 days thereafter.

 

[schmokinn]

Statement from the NSCA:

The NSCA Executive Council, along with the NSCA Executive Director, have reached a decision in the disciplinary action case that occurred during the 2019 World English Sporting Clays Championship. The NSCA EC and Executive Director feel that their decision is appropriate, given all evidence. The decision will be disclosed once all interested parties have been notified and the appeals process expires 21 days thereafter.

I am willing to bet no further action and they hope everybody has forgotten by the time they sneek out a minor notification.

Am i a cynic..100%

 

[GulfCoast]

There is a huge problem with inexperienced ref/trappers/scorekeepers here across the pond.  I have had to explain the "no bird" rules to many a trapper/scorekeeper enough times that it makes me weary, even at State Championships in states with several hundred shooters in the main event.  I have never seen a 12 year old keeping score at any registered shoot, though it would not surprise me if it happens.  Scout troops work cheap.  The only attempts at cheating that I have personally seen are "chip squads" assisting in begging for chips. 

 

[unplugged]

IN the interest of those that wonder how could this happen, and not saying it has! 

A possible how!

Scorekeepers are required to keep a master sheet of shooter numbers and score. What does happen and I have witnessed same is the score keepers score all the shooters a station, then fumble around with the cards and record the number of kills for each shooter. Many times a "helpful" shooter will take the cards and read the score and shooter number for the scorekeeper as the scorekeeper records them on the master sheet.

It "helps" the scorekeeper and speeds up the moving of squads from station to station.

Now if one were devious enough to stay behind and help the scorekeeper RECORD the master sheet, if your card was one of the squads, and you simply told the scorekeeper the score you WISH you had shot, the master sheet would not have to be adjusted or changed at all!

However, YOUR individual card would require "adjustment"!!! And as long as your squad mates didn't look at your card ( and who does look at others score card when handing them to the next station scorekeeper! ) The Master sheet will now agree with your adjusted card!

(and no need to badger any scorer into changing anything!! You merely help them put down the score you wished you had received)

However, most folks on a squad with a well known shooter that misses very few, also make mental notes on how many said well known shooter misses.

Hypothetically,  of course!

(but there is the pesky question of changes on your personal score card!)

 

[DavidJ]

Here's the White Course worth a watch to see the presentations. 

7.27 young looking person on this stand, maybe just pressing buttons.

12.30 could have resulted in a change to a card.